Thanks Julie , I will give Family Dollar a try for it ! tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Julie , > My experience seems to have shown that the Hydrocortesone prescription > cream base rubs-in-to the skin well , and , the OTC cream ( at least > generic ) leaves a greasey residue and does not fully rub-in which is > probably partially why the OTC barely works at all . > Hmm…  I haven’t noticed that and I usually buy whatever is the cheapest. > Currently I have some stuff from Family Dollar.  Worked just fine on > mosquito bites.

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Yes , thanks Julie , I will get it at Family Dollar this time as doggie needs it , and I will try it too !!! I think the last generic ( greasy cream ) was CVS store brand . ( at least it was the cheapest that CVS had at that time ) Most CVS store-brand and/or generic items are good though , strange , but I won’t buy Hydrocortesone cream there anymore . tim   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Julie , > My experience seems to have shown that the Hydrocortesone prescription > cream base rubs-in-to the skin well , and , the OTC cream ( at least > generic ) leaves a greasey residue and does not fully rub-in which is > probably partially why the OTC barely works at all . > Hmm…  I haven’t noticed that and I usually buy whatever is the cheapest. > Currently I have some stuff from Family Dollar.  Worked just fine on > mosquito bites.

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> I am pretty-dog-gone-sure that it is mostly the CHEAP cream base that > makes Over The Counter Hydrocortesone a waste of time and money .

Some of my prescription stuff seems to have the same base.  Just a higher concentration of steroid. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

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Julie , My experience seems to have shown that the Hydrocortesone prescription cream base rubs-in-to the skin well , and , the OTC cream ( at least generic ) leaves a greasey residue and does not fully rub-in which is probably partially why the OTC barely works at all . tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am pretty-dog-gone-sure that it is mostly the CHEAP cream base that > makes Over The Counter Hydrocortesone a waste of time and money . > Some of my prescription stuff seems to have the same base.  Just a higher > concentration of steroid.

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> Julie , > My experience seems to have shown that the Hydrocortesone prescription > cream base rubs-in-to the skin well , and , the OTC cream ( at least > generic ) leaves a greasey residue and does not fully rub-in which is > probably partially why the OTC barely works at all .

Hmm…  I haven’t noticed that and I usually buy whatever is the cheapest. Currently I have some stuff from Family Dollar.  Worked just fine on mosquito bites. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

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Then buy the ointment instead of the cream. At least then it will stick. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am pretty-dog-gone-sure that it is mostly the CHEAP cream base that > makes Over The Counter Hydrocortesone a waste of time and money . > tim > > I never thought about any difference.  Are each "kind" the same > > strength?   Some prescription items for OTC are a lower potency. > > Read the label.  Quite a difference in cost and many OTC items are > > the same as a prescription.  I have had a pharmacist go to  the > > counter and take the item to prescribe.   Each case may be different. > > Read the labels. Cortisone reduces the inflammation but may not get to > > the root cause of a problem.  In other cases it may provide the edge > > to cure a problem.  I do know some higher strength steroids will work > > better on Poison Ivy.   There is a time to see a doctor > Yes, there are different strengths.  The OTC stuff is milder than the > prescription, although you can get mild prescription stuff too.  And there > are different bases.  We have already discussed the cream and ointment but > it also comes in gel form.  This is good for a person with oily skin, or in > my case for use with the compression hosiery.  The pharmacist can also mix > additional ingredients such as fungal things.

– Chuck -

Does anyone have experience or know what this could be?   Small red areas size of pinhead to nailhead….with a small white dot in its center. Appears on arms. legs.  The red area can remain small or  grow  as large  as a large nailhead.  When it goes away, it leaves a dry area and sometimes a whitening of the skin patch.  They appeared whether outside in sun or not and any time of year.   I was experiencing  many of them before my DX  and will upon occasion have a couple now,   even tho’ my sugars are in non-diabetic ranges for 98% of the time….A1c of 5.0.  T2.       I was watching TV one day (before DX)  and I believe  it was actress Gene Teirny, who died   whom they say awoke one morning to find red spots ….  (and the darned red spots had something to do with  her demise).   Due to my ingrained  ostrich   mentality,  I switched channels very quickly!   Since my DX  I have faced a lot of my  niggling health  issues but where these red spots are concerned, my ostrich beak is still in the sand!     Memory

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anyone have experience or know what this could be?   Small red areas > size of pinhead to nailhead….with a small white dot in its center. > Appears on arms. legs.  The red area can remain small or  grow  as large as > a large nailhead.  When it goes away, it leaves a dry area and sometimes a > whitening of the skin patch.  They appeared whether outside in sun or not > and any time of year.   I was experiencing  many of them before my DX  and > will upon occasion have a couple now,   even tho’ my sugars are in > non-diabetic ranges for 98% of the time….A1c of 5.0.  T2.       I was > watching TV one day (before DX)  and I believe  it was actress Gene Teirny, > who died   whom they say awoke one morning to find red spots ….  (and the > darned red spots had something to do with  her demise).   Due to my > ingrained  ostrich   mentality,  I switched channels very quickly!   Since > my DX  I have faced a lot of my  niggling health  issues but where these red > spots are concerned, my ostrich beak is still in the sand!     Memory

See a dermatologist.  I had something like this on my neck prior to diagnosis.  It was never determined exactly what it was, but they seemed to go away on their own.  Nothing the Dr. gave me helped.  I’ve since been diagnosed with sebhorriac dermatitis and also psoriasis.  Sometimes it’s hard to tell which is which, but the treatment for both is the same. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

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Memory you cannot be an ostrich anymore,  You may have psoriasis, eczema or seborrah or you might have something else,  It is time to vist the derm and get an accurate diagnosis.  The longer you delay, the worse it could get if you have had it for awhile. The story I know about Gene Tierney was during World War II, she was on a tour when a young girl came up to her and kissed her,.  told her she was her favorite actress.  The girl also told her she had german measles,  Gene was pregnant and caught the german measles,  Her child was born mentally retarded,  Gene suffered many many breakdowns and never got over it .  All because a selfish young girl had to see her idol.  I wonder if this is the story you were watching,  I dont believe I heard that she died as a result of red dots. Loretta please see a doctor — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

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Thank you dear Loretta.  I bet the red dots were the German measles (for Gene T).  As I said I switched so quickly I didn’t hear any of the content re this or a child.  In fact, I switched so quickly that there probably was an ensuing rug burn!!!    This has always been in the back of my mind.  No German measles here so whatever this is it is not a Gene Tierny thing…. Yes, I will ask my Dr. about this.  I did mention it very early in my DX and nothing else was said about it.  I have them very seldom.  But I thought it was interesting that before   DX  I could pretty well connect their appearance  to my eating..carbs and  outright sugar stuff.  " Ploooiiiink" That’s the removal of the rest of my head!   Thank you.  Bless.  Memory

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Dr. time….go NOW…could be "just" dermatitis or not but a newsgroup diagnosis is about as valuable as a newsgroup cure.   Small red areas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> size of pinhead to nailhead….with a small white dot in its center. > Appears on arms. legs.  The red area can remain small or  grow  as large as > a large nailhead.  When it goes away, it leaves a dry area and sometimes a > whitening of the skin patch.

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Okay, at the risk of being gross, my doc told me that diabetics are prone to boils, deep tissue infections, kind of like a mega-pimple.  Some of these can cause quite a lot of complications, but I’m not as informed as I’d like to be about them.  I’ve noticed that some of these ‘boils’, like on my thigh, leave a very curious scar, a little knot that doesn’t go away. I do know that mine occur more often when my sugars are out of control, so for me, they have something to do with my blood sugars. Bonita

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anyone have experience or know what this could be?   Small red areas > size of pinhead to nailhead….with a small white dot in its center. > Appears on arms. legs.  The red area can remain small or  grow  as large as > a large nailhead.  When it goes away, it leaves a dry area and sometimes a > whitening of the skin patch.  They appeared whether outside in sun or not > and any time of year.   I was experiencing  many of them before my DX and > will upon occasion have a couple now,   even tho’ my sugars are in > non-diabetic ranges for 98% of the time….A1c of 5.0.  T2.       I was > watching TV one day (before DX)  and I believe  it was actress Gene Teirny, > who died   whom they say awoke one morning to find red spots ….  (and the > darned red spots had something to do with  her demise).   Due to my > ingrained  ostrich   mentality,  I switched channels very quickly! Since > my DX  I have faced a lot of my  niggling health  issues but where these red > spots are concerned, my ostrich beak is still in the sand!     Memory

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anyone have experience or know what this could be?   Small red areas > size of pinhead to nailhead….with a small white dot in its center. > Appears on arms. legs.  The red area can remain small or  grow  as large as > a large nailhead.  When it goes away, it leaves a dry area and sometimes a > whitening of the skin patch.  They appeared whether outside in sun or not > and any time of year.   I was experiencing  many of them before my DX  and > will upon occasion have a couple now,   even tho’ my sugars are in > non-diabetic ranges for 98% of the time….A1c of 5.0.  T2.       I was > watching TV one day (before DX)  and I believe  it was actress Gene Teirny, > who died   whom they say awoke one morning to find red spots ….  (and the > darned red spots had something to do with  her demise).   Due to my > ingrained  ostrich   mentality,  I switched channels very quickly!   Since > my DX  I have faced a lot of my  niggling health  issues but where these red > spots are concerned, my ostrich beak is still in the sand!     Memory

Memory, My stepson had those EXACT same things that would appear on his arm and a couple of places on his neck when he was a young teen.   They would tend to recur in the same places and then heal up again in between.   We never found out what they were, but they did go away.   I agree that a dermatologist ought to check them out.   My stepson tried nystatin cream and various antibiotic creams and nothing seemed to really work for any long period of time, as I said they did tend to recur. He planned to get them diagnosed properly by a dermatologist if they recurred but they never did. Hope you are able to identify and treat them. Regards, Evelyn

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Any Lyme disease in the neighborhood? Just a thought. Sleepy >Does anyone have experience or know what this could be?   Small red areas >size of pinhead to nailhead….with a small white dot in its center. >Appears on arms. legs.  The red area can remain small or  grow  as large  as >a large nailhead.  When it goes away, it leaves a dry area and sometimes a >whitening of the skin patch.  They appeared whether outside in sun or not >and any time of year.   I was experiencing  many of them before my DX  and >will upon occasion have a couple now,   even tho’ my sugars are in >non-diabetic ranges for 98% of the time….A1c of 5.0.  T2.       I was >watching TV one day (before DX)  and I believe  it was actress Gene Teirny, >who died   whom they say awoke one morning to find red spots ….  (and the >darned red spots had something to do with  her demise).   Due to my >ingrained  ostrich   mentality,  I switched channels very quickly!   Since >my DX  I have faced a lot of my  niggling health  issues but where these red >spots are concerned, my ostrich beak is still in the sand!     Memory

"I don’t belong to any organized political party….. I’m a Democrat". Will Rogers

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> Does anyone have experience or know what this could be?   Small red areas > size of pinhead to nailhead….with a small white dot in its center. > Appears on arms. legs.  The red area can remain small or  grow  as large  as > a large nailhead.  When it goes away, it leaves a dry area and sometimes a > whitening of the skin patch.  They appeared whether outside in sun or not > and any time of year.   I was experiencing  many of them before my DX  and > will upon occasion have a couple now,

Anything from tiny insect bites with an allergic reaction to "Lichen Planus" It’s definitely dermatologist time. — Gregory G. "Wolfe" Woodbury      `-_-’    Owner/Admin: wolves.durham.nc.us ggw at wolves.durham.nc.us         U       "The Line Eater is a boojum snark."     Hug your wolf.

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> Does anyone have experience or know what this could be?   Small red > areas size of pinhead to nailhead….with a small white dot in its > center. Appears on arms. legs.  The red area can remain small or > grow  as large  as a large nailhead.  When it goes away, it leaves a > dry area and sometimes a whitening of the skin patch.  They appeared > whether outside in sun or not and any time of year.   I was > experiencing  many of them before my DX  and will upon occasion have > a couple now,

Have you ever suffered from food allergies? Are you lactose intolerant? Your skin condition sounds a _lot_ like Dermatitis Herpetiformis, a condition associated with Celiac disease. Do they look like the pictures here: http://www.gastrolab.net/ng016.htm Regards, James the Elder

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James.  Thank you so much for posting those pics for me.  It is something I willbring up to the Dr.  But, mine are never scabby looky.  I don’t think this is it but who knows.  I will ask the  Dr.  Again Thank You!!     Bless Memory

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> James.  Thank you so much for posting those pics for me.  It is > something I willbring up to the Dr.  But, mine are never scabby > looky.  I don’t think this is it but who knows.  I will ask the  Dr. > Again Thank You!!     Bless Memory

You can also check some images here: http://www.dermis.net/doia/diagnose.asp?zugr=d&lang=e&diagnr=694000&t…, but please remember that these images all tend to be worst case. Checking with your Doc is, of course, the best course of action. You could be seeing something that’s simply a reaction to your new laundry detergent. Good luck. James the Elder

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Some form of bacterial infection.  When your bg is high, it thrives on the excess sugars. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thank you dear Loretta.  I bet the red dots were the German measles (for > Gene T).  As I said I switched so quickly I didn’t hear any of the content > re this or a child.  In fact, I switched so quickly that there probably was > an ensuing rug burn!!!    This has always been in the back of my mind.  No > German measles here so whatever this is it is not a Gene Tierny thing…. > Yes, I will ask my Dr. about this.  I did mention it very early in my DX and > nothing else was said about it.  I have them very seldom.  But I thought it > was interesting that before   DX  I could pretty well connect their > appearance  to my eating..carbs and  outright sugar stuff.  " Ploooiiiink" > That’s the removal of the rest of my head!   Thank you.  Bless.  Memory

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Vioxx is NOT an antibiotic, it is a NSAID – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I truly believe that Vioxx raised my BGS!!!  I tried it several times with > the same result being higher BGS   Memory

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cc’d by email Excellent Guy, I was trying to thinkl about how to describe the math. It is REAL esoteric stuff, I have trouble following the model, but you put it in words most can understand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I had the same problem with Keflex exactly!  It was not the infection >>as I have the same problem when I take E-mycin for gastroparesis.  The >>Bg goes sky high. >>The doc said it was due to the antibiotic and that he had seen this >>happen an number of times. >Hmmm…  I took Keflex only once and broke out head to toe in hives.  Wasn’t >a diabetic then (or at least I don’t think so), but they did take my BG >while I was in the hospital and it wasn’t high. > There was a good Swiss study as to why some problems became worse > when antibiotics were used.  That was followed by improvement. > The reasons given was that our body responds to  components of the > pathogen.   These increase when the antibiotic becomes effective. > Long lost the article. > Infections produce gross changes in blood sugar in my case.  I see > infection development in blood sugars before other symptoms. >                                                    Guy

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Yes.  I know it is not an antibiotic.  It is an anti-inflammatory.  Just wanted to share that it seemed to cause my BGS to go up as well as celebrex–another anti-inflammatory.    Thank you.   Memory

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>Yes.  I know it is not an antibiotic.  It is an anti-inflammatory.  Just >wanted to share that it seemed to cause my BGS to go up as well as >celebrex–another anti-inflammatory.    Thank you.   Memory

My  understanding is that anti-intiflammatory items will raise BG. I also understand they will not cure infections but give symptomatic relief.  The should be used with care.                                      Guy

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I truly believe that Vioxx raised my BGS!!!  I tried it several times with the same result being higher BGS   Memory

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I had the same problem with Keflex exactly!  It was not the infection > as I have the same problem when I take E-mycin for gastroparesis.  The > Bg goes sky high. > The doc said it was due to the antibiotic and that he had seen this > happen an number of times. >Hmmm…  I took Keflex only once and broke out head to toe in hives.  Wasn’t >a diabetic then (or at least I don’t think so), but they did take my BG >while I was in the hospital and it wasn’t high.

There was a good Swiss study as to why some problems became worse when antibiotics were used.  That was followed by improvement. The reasons given was that our body responds to  components of the pathogen.   These increase when the antibiotic becomes effective. Long lost the article. Infections produce gross changes in blood sugar in my case.  I see infection development in blood sugars before other symptoms.                                                    Guy

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> I had the same problem with Keflex exactly!  It was not the infection > as I have the same problem when I take E-mycin for gastroparesis.  The > Bg goes sky high. > The doc said it was due to the antibiotic and that he had seen this > happen an number of times.

Hmmm…  I took Keflex only once and broke out head to toe in hives.  Wasn’t a diabetic then (or at least I don’t think so), but they did take my BG while I was in the hospital and it wasn’t high. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

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I had the same problem with Keflex exactly!  It was not the infection as I have the same problem when I take E-mycin for gastroparesis.  The Bg goes sky high. The doc said it was due to the antibiotic and that he had seen this happen an number of times. Zbrigid

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi gang, >   I got a thumbnail infection about 11/2 wks ago, my bg’s were great, > during that time.  The doc’s thought that I should have a course of > Keflex (antibodic), started them on Wed… and  one hour after taking > the pill, my bg’s rose up to 279, and stayed in the area for the next 4 > hours.  I am on th pump, so did all the checks , changed the site, and > the whole set up, plus gave myself  SQ injections…..no ketones , but > still high.  Called the NE last nite and she has me adjusting my basal > rates and increased the units for the meal boluses…….still  having > the high bg’s. She thought that I am having some kind of reaction on a > cellular level, that is causing this problem…due to allergies this is > the only antibodics that I can take.  Anyone have any thoughts on this, > or have you ever heard of this problem?  My meals have remained the same > thru out the whole time I have been on the pump, that was started on > March 23rd.  I will be in daily contact with the NE,,,,just was > wondering if anyone else has had such a problem!! > Mic > Always, be, and stay AWARE!

Response:

I used Keflex for an extended period of time last year after a surgical incision would not heal. After the infection died down, my BG’s improved. I still took Keflex for another week or so after things had cleared up. (I am one of the few who finish their anti-biotics I guess) and my Bg’s stayed in control. Just anecdotal evidence, I know. Good Luck! Sleepy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi gang, >   I got a thumbnail infection about 11/2 wks ago, my bg’s were great, > during that time.  The doc’s thought that I should have a course of > Keflex (antibodic), started them on Wed… and  one hour after taking > the pill, my bg’s rose up to 279, and stayed in the area for the next 4 > hours.  I am on th pump, so did all the checks , changed the site, and > the whole set up, plus gave myself  SQ injections…..no ketones , but > still high.  Called the NE last nite and she has me adjusting my basal > rates and increased the units for the meal boluses…….still  having > the high bg’s. She thought that I am having some kind of reaction on a > cellular level, that is causing this problem…due to allergies this is > the only antibodics that I can take.  Anyone have any thoughts on this, > or have you ever heard of this problem?  My meals have remained the same > thru out the whole time I have been on the pump, that was started on > March 23rd.  I will be in daily contact with the NE,,,,just was > wondering if anyone else has had such a problem!! >My guess is that it is the infection causing the high BG and not the >antibiotic.  I went through a very bad patch of having infections on my legs >due to misdiagnosis of what I have.  The Drs. kept telling me it was >psoriasis when in fact it was something due to a vein problem.  So the veins >continued to leak blood, my legs continued to swell and the only thing I was >ever told to do was apply a steroid cream.  My legs looked worse and worse. >I suspected an infection, yet none of my Drs. would do anything about it. >They merely told me to see a dermatologist.  I did, eventually.  But I had a >hard time getting in to see one.  As it turned out, my legs were indeed >infected!  In the meantime, my BG had been raging out of control.  My Endo. >prescribed Starlix and that helped a bit to get the BG down.  But I was >still fighting high BG until I went on antibiotics and the infection >cleared.  Unfortunately, I continued to have problems with this off and on >until I finally saw different Dr. who gave me a correct diagnosis.

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>cc’d by email >no Matt, the recverse is true >INFECTIONS make BG crazy (mainly up) antibiotics can help.  They are >more likely to cause BG to DROP

I believe Micki is not the first person I’ve seen anecdotally reporting an effect on BG by antibiotics.  There are a variety of meds which can affect BG.  Yes, infection can raise BG, but that doesn’t mean that NO antibiotic will. Priscilla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi gang, >   I got a thumbnail infection about 11/2 wks ago, my bg’s were great, > during that time.  The doc’s thought that I should have a course of > Keflex (antibodic), started them on Wed… and  one hour after taking > the pill, my bg’s rose up to 279, and stayed in the area for the next 4 > hours.  I am on th pump, so did all the checks , changed the site, and > the whole set up, plus gave myself  SQ injections…..no ketones , but > still high.  Called the NE last nite and she has me adjusting my basal > rates and increased the units for the meal boluses…….still  having > the high bg’s. She thought that I am having some kind of reaction on a > cellular level, that is causing this problem…due to allergies this is > the only antibodics that I can take.  Anyone have any thoughts on this, > or have you ever heard of this problem?  My meals have remained the same > thru out the whole time I have been on the pump, that was started on > March 23rd.  I will be in daily contact with the NE,,,,just was > wondering if anyone else has had such a problem!! > Mic > Always, be, and stay AWARE!

– "I would listen to Priscilla. Her advice is excellent!"            – Frankenmel (Sharon) on alt.support.menopause

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi gang, >   I got a thumbnail infection about 11/2 wks ago, my bg’s were great, > during that time.  The doc’s thought that I should have a course of > Keflex (antibodic), started them on Wed… and  one hour after taking > the pill, my bg’s rose up to 279, and stayed in the area for the next 4 > hours.  I am on th pump, so did all the checks , changed the site, and > the whole set up, plus gave myself  SQ injections…..no ketones , but > still high.  Called the NE last nite and she has me adjusting my basal > rates and increased the units for the meal boluses…….still  having > the high bg’s. She thought that I am having some kind of reaction on a > cellular level, that is causing this problem…due to allergies this is > the only antibodics that I can take.  Anyone have any thoughts on this, > or have you ever heard of this problem?  My meals have remained the same > thru out the whole time I have been on the pump, that was started on > March 23rd.  I will be in daily contact with the NE,,,,just was > wondering if anyone else has had such a problem!!

My guess is that it is the infection causing the high BG and not the antibiotic.  I went through a very bad patch of having infections on my legs due to misdiagnosis of what I have.  The Drs. kept telling me it was psoriasis when in fact it was something due to a vein problem.  So the veins continued to leak blood, my legs continued to swell and the only thing I was ever told to do was apply a steroid cream.  My legs looked worse and worse. I suspected an infection, yet none of my Drs. would do anything about it. They merely told me to see a dermatologist.  I did, eventually.  But I had a hard time getting in to see one.  As it turned out, my legs were indeed infected!  In the meantime, my BG had been raging out of control.  My Endo. prescribed Starlix and that helped a bit to get the BG down.  But I was still fighting high BG until I went on antibiotics and the infection cleared.  Unfortunately, I continued to have problems with this off and on until I finally saw different Dr. who gave me a correct diagnosis. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Response:

cc’d by email no Matt, the recverse is true INFECTIONS make BG crazy (mainly up) antibiotics can help.  They are more likely to cause BG to DROP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi gang, >   I got a thumbnail infection about 11/2 wks ago, my bg’s were great, > during that time.  The doc’s thought that I should have a course of > Keflex (antibodic), started them on Wed… and  one hour after taking > the pill, my bg’s rose up to 279, and stayed in the area for the next 4 > hours.  I am on th pump, so did all the checks , changed the site, and > the whole set up, plus gave myself  SQ injections…..no ketones , but > still high.  Called the NE last nite and she has me adjusting my basal > rates and increased the units for the meal boluses…….still  having > the high bg’s. She thought that I am having some kind of reaction on a > cellular level, that is causing this problem…due to allergies this is > the only antibodics that I can take.  Anyone have any thoughts on this, > or have you ever heard of this problem?  My meals have remained the same > thru out the whole time I have been on the pump, that was started on > March 23rd.  I will be in daily contact with the NE,,,,just was > wondering if anyone else has had such a problem!! > Mic > Always, be, and stay AWARE!

Response:

Hi gang,   I got a thumbnail infection about 11/2 wks ago, my bg’s were great, during that time.  The doc’s thought that I should have a course of Keflex (antibodic), started them on Wed… and  one hour after taking the pill, my bg’s rose up to 279, and stayed in the area for the next 4 hours.  I am on th pump, so did all the checks , changed the site, and the whole set up, plus gave myself  SQ injections…..no ketones , but still high.  Called the NE last nite and she has me adjusting my basal rates and increased the units for the meal boluses…….still  having the high bg’s. She thought that I am having some kind of reaction on a cellular level, that is causing this problem…due to allergies this is the only antibodics that I can take.  Anyone have any thoughts on this, or have you ever heard of this problem?  My meals have remained the same thru out the whole time I have been on the pump, that was started on March 23rd.  I will be in daily contact with the NE,,,,just was wondering if anyone else has had such a problem!! Mic Always, be, and stay AWARE!

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>http://www.arthritis.co.za/psoriasis.html/

which fails, and then: >http://www.arthritis.co.za/psoriasis.html

which doesn’t. Note the slash on the end of the first one.  That’s the problem.  Browsers and servers would be expecting to find a page named something like www.arthritis.co.za/psoriasis.html/index.htm in reponse to that request. Just a typo. – Dave W. http://psorsite.com/

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>> This link will give you lots more details about psoriatic arthritis, who >gets > it, how it is diagnosed, treated, etc: > http://www.arthritis.co.za/psoriasis.html/ <snip> >i tried your first link but i got a error….thanks for the info. >jamie >

I have used the Dead Sea Salts many times. It did seem to soothe my skin, but I did not see any improvement in the psoriasis. I have also used the Aveeno oatmeal treatments (and the genric forms of it, too, which work as well) & I had the same experience. Very soothing & moisturizing, but not really a treatment for psoriais. When I first developed psoriasis, I had trouble finding the Dead Sea Salts. Now, they seem to be everywhere. I have seen them at the drugstore & at several health & mineral stores around where I live. The last time I went to TJ Maxx, they had a whole line of Dead Sea products (lotion, bathsoap, soaking salts,etc) for a very cheap price. I tried some of that stuff out, too, but again, no medicial cure-all to be found. I have heard that going to the Dead Sea is a great idea if you can afford it. I also saw a very strange piece on Animal Planet once & was wondering if anyone else had seen it or knows what I am talking about–there is someplace in the general area of the Dead Sea where you may go & soak & there are fish in the water that will nibble on your psoriasis scales. I have no idea what the fish were called, but doctors believe there is something in their salivia that helps psoriasis clear up (why aren’t they bottling this stuff??)There was even footage of psoriasis sufferers sitting in the water & of the fish swimming up to them–I know this sounds really bizarre, but I am not making it up. I wish I had paid more attention at the time. Anyway, there are my two cents, and if you have any idea what I am talking about in the last paragraph, please let me know. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > any recommendations on how much to use in a bath  , where to purchase, and any > therapy to use in conjunction  paul

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have used the Dead Sea Salts many times. It did seem to soothe my > skin, but I did not see any improvement in the psoriasis. I have also > used the Aveeno oatmeal treatments (and the genric forms of it, too, > which work as well) & I had the same experience. Very soothing & > moisturizing, but not really a treatment for psoriais. > When I first developed psoriasis, I had trouble finding the Dead Sea > Salts. Now, they seem to be everywhere. I have seen them at the > drugstore & at several health & mineral stores around where I live. > The last time I went to TJ Maxx, they had a whole line of Dead Sea > products (lotion, bathsoap, soaking salts,etc) for a very cheap price. > I tried some of that stuff out, too, but again, no medicial cure-all > to be found. > I have heard that going to the Dead Sea is a great idea if you can > afford it. > I also saw a very strange piece on Animal Planet once & was wondering > if anyone else had seen it or knows what I am talking about–there is > someplace in the general area of the Dead Sea where you may go & soak > & there are fish in the water that will nibble on your psoriasis > scales. I have no idea what the fish were called, but doctors believe > there is something in their salivia that helps psoriasis clear up (why > aren’t they bottling this stuff??)There was even footage of psoriasis > sufferers sitting in the water & of the fish swimming up to them–I > know this sounds really bizarre, but I am not making it up. I wish I > had paid more attention at the time. > Anyway, there are my two cents, and if you have any idea what I am > talking about in the last paragraph, please let me know.

What you saw was in Turkey not Israel. Search for kangal fish and you will find it. I know a guy who went there. It didn’t work half as well as the dead sea. The clearance he saw was contributed to a cream they supplied. He had a bad flare up after he stopped using the cream. So he  suspects it contained corticosteriods.

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http://pinch.com/skinny?skin=%22nibble+fish%22 That should give you the results of a search under the term "nibble fish" which you should find interesting.  Nope, not a cure, nor even a common treatment, but interesting none-the-less. Here is a recent post by Ed on the topic, which is a common one around here: The topic of the turkish nibble-fish has come around yet again. These "doctor fish" that reportedly nibble away psoriasis can be experienced at a thermal spa near the town of Kangul, in the province of Sivas, Turkey.  Here’s some historical newsgroup posts: http://pinch.com/skinny?skin=nibblefish+or+kangal For an inspiring story about psoriatic comraderie at the spa, see this story by Ron Alcalay from 1995 that first got my attention: http://english-www.hss.cmu.edu/BS/21/alcalay.html I’ve been advised that there are now people breeding and selling the fish for home treatment. They seem to be coming from Germany, but there are websites in Switzerland and at least one spa in Austria: http://pinch.com/skinny?web=garra-rufa+aquarium The little carp naturally appear in other places in the mideast and are probably in aquariums around the world, but this selling of the fish with the spa story apparently has the turkish tourism folks upset. They put out a newspaper blurb (in response to a story I can’t find online) saying that the stories are a fraud, the fish were "stolen" away to Germany, and they can’t survive outside the spa: http://www.turkishdailynews.com/old_editions/11_24_01/dom2.htm#d20 The fish seem to be breeding just fine in aquariums, and there are photos of them nibbling just like at Kengal. Some detailed reports from the spa describe two subspecies, a "licker" and "striker" (ouch). Another research study reports that the spa fish breeding habits are in sync with the peak tourist seasons, possibly because of the increased food supply… I’m sure the story (and the fish) will continue to spread far and wide, given the demand for all natural alternative treatments. Funny thing, one site claims that the fish actually inject enzymes and a bit of natural dithranol (anthralin) back into the skin. That’s highly unlikely. It will be interesting to see how far the speculation goes. — Ed "scaled back" Anderson LadyAndy Chat live with us at >http://tinyurl.com/4ust < (this is at iVillageHealth – my chats are on Sun evenings at 10 ET) Joint Replacement Board at http://boards.ivillagehealth.com/cgi-bin/boards/bhivhjointreplace

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any recommendations on how much to use in a bath  , where to purchase, and any therapy to use in conjunction  paul

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I have used the cream off and on and  it appears to help with the scaling, I recently added the tincture, which i horrible tasting.  I will let you how well this works.

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> I have used the cream off and on and  it appears to help with the scaling, I > recently added the tincture, which i horrible tasting.  I will let you how well > this works.

Hi, Thanks for your dedication to the anecdotal cure of P. How much p do you have? How long? Age of onset, etc? Oregon grape has been on my things to do list. I’ll grab up some info, Berberis aquifolium     http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… It may be an adjunct to horny goat weed? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… If it works on fungi, then i’ll stick with grating some frozen ginger into my hot steaming fresh green tea. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… Btw, enter berberine into the search box of any of the above for over a 1000 hits. If you add psoriasis into that search you’ll get this, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… Good luck with that tincture. How many drops and what potency is it? If you get worse first don’t give up to fast. I’ve found that herbs have a tendency to shake things up. Then again wise judgement and bailing out are ok also. randall..

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I have it on my joints for the most part and my scalp. I got it when I was living in Texas  in 1999.

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The tincture tastes like moonshine with a kick, you take approx 3 tbs daily or i tbs 3 x’s daily

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>Also, I was under the impression that psoriasis could not be >spread–is this only through the nails?

Psoriasis is not contagious, neither to another person nor to another area on a single individual.  That post that said that is was was in error.   There is something called the Koebner effect where any minor or major injury to the skin may develop psoriasis in an individual who is already prone to psoriasis.  That means if you scratch your skin, you may either get psoriasis there or you may make psoriasis you already have there worse.  Perhaps that is what caused the poster’s confusion. In any case, psoriasis absolutely is NOT CONTAGIOUS.  Never was, never will be… (if it were, my brother would have gotten it from me long, long ago…) LadyAndy Chat live with us at >http://tinyurl.com/4ust < (this is at iVillageHealth – my chats are on Sun evenings at 10 ET) Joint Replacement Board at http://boards.ivillagehealth.com/cgi-bin/boards/bhivhjointreplace

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Also, I was under the impression that psoriasis could not be >spread–is this only through the nails? > Psoriasis is not contagious, neither to another person nor to another area on a > single individual.  That post that said that is was was in error. > There is something called the Koebner effect where any minor or major injury to > the skin may develop psoriasis in an individual who is already prone to > psoriasis.  That means if you scratch your skin, you may either get psoriasis > there or you may make psoriasis you already have there worse.  Perhaps that is > what caused the poster’s confusion. > In any case, psoriasis absolutely is NOT CONTAGIOUS.  Never was, never will > be…

Someone better not be trying to start a rumor like this either…imagine the outcome if it were main stream

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> Recently, psoriasis has been affecting my fingernails–I have had some > problems with my toenails in the past. > My derm says that there is no way to treat psoriasis of the nail–has > anyone here had ANY luck with any treatments of their own? Any vitamin > supplements natural product suggestions? I would like to do something > to stop it before it gets out of hand. > I repeat, ANY suggestions would be appreciated.

Last year, the P started affecting my nails as well, hands and feet. They’re actually in pretty good shape right now (albeit somewhat thicker in some cases – but not all). I noticed that whenever there was any damage to my nails (like when the nail was actually lifted up a little – getting caught on a counter, or something), that’s when the P would start to affect that nail.  I make sure that I keep my nails trimmed short and try to put clear nail polish on them every once in awhile to protect the nail (but not when they’re in bad shape). I also soak my hands and feet in one or two capfuls of Doak Oil Forte in a dish tub of warm water for 15 minutes nightly. This helps soften the skin and loosen the scales. This way you can get the topicals right on the damaged skin. I still keep this up even tho’ my nails are in okay shape (although they still have a few pits here and there). But as soon as my nail is damaged I cut it right down as short as possible and I always have short nails. Good Luck barbara

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 WHAT!!  Please corect me people if I am wrong, but I was of the firm understanding that psoriasis cannot be passed on from one area of the body to another any more than it can be passed on from one person to another.  - – You’re correct.  Not only that, but a psoriasis lession is not an infection (although it could get infected).

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>Just read the entire page is all I ask.  Because their is some good reading >amoung the stuff they what you to buy.

Actually, every bit of info on that page is there to try to get you to buy the product(s) listed.  One thing you don’t see is any reports on studies where tea tree oil or oregano oil was tested against a standard antifungal drug.  And distilled water is not a good substitute for soap. Wouldn’t you like to see the results of that kind of test prior to deciding whether or not to buy their stuff or go to a doctor?  One study listed had at least one patient being treated for six _years_ with tea tree oil before a cure was effected, forcryingoutloud!  If any regular doctor took that long to effect a cure of a fungal infection, he’d soon find himself without a license to practice medicine. From the reports and snippets from popular-press books (anybody can write a book) listed on that page, the only conclusion one can reasonably draw is that tea tree oil (or oregano oil) is better than no treatment whatsoever.  This is a very far cry from the page’s statements that these things are the "optimal" treatments for a variety of diseases.  Such claims are not supported either by that web page, or by what a person can find in Medline. They even go so far as to claim that "impeccable hygiene" can prevent colds and flu.  It can’t – it can just reduce the risk of catching them.  Unless what they mean by that phrase is "living in a bubble." – Dave W. http://psorsite.com/

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>My Doctors believe that those fungus infections >"could have" caused my psoriasis but are not certain.

Fungal infections may have _triggered_ the skin symptoms of psoriasis, but they don’t cause the disease. >I could rub my >psoriasis body all over my wifes, and she would never get psoriasis.  But >let me scratch here legs with my fungus infected nails.  Then we wonder if >she would catch something.  And then if she did could it turn into >psorisises?

She might catch a fungal infection, but unless she’s got the genes for psoriasis, and the fungal infection happens to trigger the skin symptoms, it won’t "turn into" psoriasis. – Dave W. http://psorsite.com/

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Thanks to everyone who posted–I am sure at least one of these suggestions will work. I will keep you posted. Also, I was under the impression that psoriasis could not be spread–is this only through the nails? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The main purpose of the Enbrel is to deal with my P-arthritis, > Yes, unless your psoriasis is severe, I would reserve Enbrel for those with > active psoriatic arthritis. >I >swear that my pain has already begun dimiishing.  (I observe it could be >partly placebo–but if it works, so what). > In the newsgroup alt.support.arthritis , the response is somewhat variable, but > some people get results within the first two INJECTIONS!  Amazing.  However, > others find the effect takes longer, up to 4 – 6 months for maximum benefit. > Probably those who have had no control over their disease for a longer period > may take longer to get results. >I’m told that P on the nails is sign that P-arthiritis exists– > There is a higher incidence of psoriatic athritis among people who also have > nail involvement in their skin psoriasis.  However, it isn’t always so; about > 80% of people with psoriasis of the nails will eventually get some form of PA. > Now that is *eventually*.  Might not become evident for years (wasn’t for me) > and I would probably be more conservative on prescribing the heavy hitter drugs > until you get symptoms of active disease.  After all, most of these drugs you > may be on for years, or even decades, so best to minimize the length of time > you do have to take them to when they can do the most good.  Eventually side > effects may require changing or dropping some drugs, so you want to be able to > use them when you really need them. >Enbrel is a brand new treatment for P–as far as I know the only drawback is >its cost (about $1200.00 per month). > Most of the cost is usually covered by health insurance if it is prescribed for > a covered application (psoriatic arthritis). > I don’t think it has yet been approved for psoriasis of the skin (I may be > wrong, but don’t think so).  There is an application pending for this > application (US), but I don’t think it has come through yet.  This would make > getting coverage for psoriasis of the skin alone problematic. > One thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet is NOT to use the nails as "tools". > Any perceived stress to or injury of the nails may cause the psoriasis to flare > up under the nails, which is what is happening when you get nail psoriasis.  So > do try to avoid picking things up with your nails (coins, etc), prying things > with your nails (can flip tops, staples, envelope flaps, etc), peeling things > with your nails (labels, tape, etc), or causing other minor stresses to the > nails. > Also take care ALWAYS to moisturize your nails well, tops and undersides, after > you have been in water.  I always take a long, hot bath in the morning which > helps to get my achy joints moving (great for the arthritis, LOUSY for the > psoriasis).  Afterward I am generous with the Eucerin from the big white tub, > which helps a lot. > If you can, reduce the amount of time you spend soaking in water, use as little > soap as possible, make the water warm rather than hot, and just get IN, get > CLEAN, then get OUT of the bath or shower.  You will find this does help the > nails as well as your skin. > LadyAndy > Chat live with us at >http://tinyurl.com/4ust < (this is at iVillageHealth – my > chats are on Sun evenings at 10 ET) > Joint Replacement Board at > http://boards.ivillagehealth.com/cgi-bin/boards/bhivhjointreplace

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Please ignore this non-sense post!  P cannot be transmitted in any way.  However the ignorance in this posting can be transmitted, by an ignorant person quoting this to another ignorant person. Ray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Getting p of the nails is very important in trying to control.  That is one > way that it is able to spread thought the body.  For example,  Lets say that > a person gets jock itch and/or athletes feet.  When you scratch it with your > nails, because it hurts so good, you then pass the infection to the nails. > So then once the nails become infected, it then becomes easier to pass the > infection to other parts of the body, lets say by scratching your head and > legs. > Once it has been passed on to the scalp and body.  Then the doctors say you > have psoriasis. > Trying to clear up my nails, has been the hardest to control. > My Doctor gave me a subscription of Lotrimin which I use on my nails.  It is > a drug used for males with jock itch.  Also he said that I could buy over > the counter meds for jock itch and apply to my nails.  Then I just keep the > nails trimmed back and clean the stuff under my nails the best that I can. > The Doctor told me that is the only way.  As the nails grows, I will have to > keep them trimmed, until it has all trimmed away. > Do your best in keeping your nails dry.  Use gloves when doing dishes and > stuff.  And after using the gloves, turn the gloves inside out and lay in by > a window so that the sun can dry the gloves.  Wash your hands, and re-apply > the cream and/or lotion to the nails. > I buy the surgical gloves so that I never re use them. > I hope this helps you. > David > My nails should be back to normal in about two months. > Recently, psoriasis has been affecting my fingernails–I have had some > problems with my toenails in the past. > My derm says that there is no way to treat psoriasis of the nail–has > anyone here had ANY luck with any treatments of their own? Any vitamin > supplements natural product suggestions? I would like to do something > to stop it before it gets out of hand. > I repeat, ANY suggestions would be appreciated.

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http://antiagingchoices.com/Aromatherapy/healthy_nail.htm This web site I do not give so that anyone would buy their products, just as a first insight into the problems of nails. Just read the entire page is all I ask.  Because their is some good reading amoung the stuff they what you to buy. David

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Getting p of the nails is very important in trying to control.  That > is one way that it is able to spread thought the body.  For example, > Lets say that a person gets jock itch and/or athletes feet.  When you > scratch it with your nails, because it hurts so good, you then pass > the infection to the nails. So then once the nails become infected, > it then becomes easier to pass the infection to other parts of the > body, lets say by scratching your head and legs. > Once it has been passed on to the scalp and body.  Then the doctors > say you have psoriasis. > Trying to clear up my nails, has been the hardest to control. > My Doctor gave me a subscription of Lotrimin which I use on my nails. > It is a drug used for males with jock itch.  Also he said that I > could buy over the counter meds for jock itch and apply to my nails. > Then I just keep the nails trimmed back and clean the stuff under my > nails the best that I can. The Doctor told me that is the only way. > As the nails grows, I will have to keep them trimmed, until it has > all trimmed away. Do your best in keeping your nails dry.  Use gloves > when doing dishes and stuff.  And after using the gloves, turn the > gloves inside out and lay in by a window so that the sun can dry the > gloves.  Wash your hands, and re-apply the cream and/or lotion to the > nails. I buy the surgical gloves so that I never re use them. > I hope this helps you. > David > WHAT!! > Please corect me people if I am wrong, but I was of the firm understanding > that psoriasis cannot be passed on from one area of the body to another any > more than it can be passed on from one person to another.

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Kim, OK, I summit.  True that psoriasis is itself its own entity.  True that psoriasis is not contagious.  But nail fungus and athletes foot and jock itch is very contagious.  My Doctors believe that those fungus infections "could have" caused my psoriasis but are not certain.  I could rub my psoriasis body all over my wifes, and she would never get psoriasis.  But let me scratch here legs with my fungus infected nails.  Then we wonder if she would catch something.  And then if she did could it turn into psorisises? We don’t know and I am not going to found out. David

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> No way isn’t accurate, although it is one of the hardest places to > treat. Um, if that’s literallyu what was said, I would question how > expert your derm is about P and consider finding one who is. > Anyway, because it can be particularly tough, natural may not be a lot > of help. Probably the first thing to try that way – JRStern has > reported here getting good benefit from evening primrose oil there for > one option. And you might try tweaking diet to see if that has any > effect. You could also consider rubbing in any natural topicals that > might have helped you  in the past elsewhere – like tea tree oil. > Careful if you don’t know if that helps you otherwise, as it helps > some but makes mine a lot worse. Also, look into changing the types of > soaps you use and using a nail moisturizer to minimize damage and > eliminate possible irritants triggering things. If you live in the > cold weather, wear gloves – the small amount of nail P I get is almost > always triggered by the cold weather. > Doctors can try to apply some of the normal topicals there, depending > upon where the P is located. They’ll even inject steroids, although > that can reportedly be pretty painful and may not be effective. And > systemmic drugs can clear it up too, although usually nail psoriasis > alone is not considered worth the risk factors. > The new NPF site lets non-members register for free to get access to > their educational pamphlets. There’s one including info about this at > http://www.psoriasis.org/resources/publications/booklets.php > If you’re a member of the NPF you can also look thorugh their It Works > for Me database of tips submitted by other members. > You should also search the ng archives using the tools at > http://www.pinch.com/skin    to see what others have said in the past. > Here’s a general search under psoriasis and nails to get you started > http://pinch.com/skinny?skin=nails+psoriasis > BTW, I’m assuming you know that David meant well in the other reply > but his post was based on an incorrect belief that psoriasis is > contagious. Although it’s not impossible that there is a possibly > contagious fungus of some sort on your nails making things worse, > that’s separate from the psoriasis itself, which is not contagious. > Best > Kim >Recently, psoriasis has been affecting my fingernails–I have had some >problems with my toenails in the past. >My derm says that there is no way to treat psoriasis of the nail–has >anyone here had ANY luck with any treatments of their own? Any vitamin >supplements natural product suggestions? I would like to do something >to stop it before it gets out of hand. >I repeat, ANY suggestions would be appreciated.

Response:

>The main purpose of the Enbrel is to deal with my P-arthritis,

Yes, unless your psoriasis is severe, I would reserve Enbrel for those with active psoriatic arthritis. >I >swear that my pain has already begun dimiishing.  (I observe it could be >partly placebo–but if it works, so what).

In the newsgroup alt.support.arthritis , the response is somewhat variable, but some people get results within the first two INJECTIONS!  Amazing.  However, others find the effect takes longer, up to 4 – 6 months for maximum benefit. Probably those who have had no control over their disease for a longer period may take longer to get results. >I’m told that P on the nails is sign that P-arthiritis exists–

There is a higher incidence of psoriatic athritis among people who also have nail involvement in their skin psoriasis.  However, it isn’t always so; about 80% of people with psoriasis of the nails will eventually get some form of PA. Now that is *eventually*.  Might not become evident for years (wasn’t for me) and I would probably be more conservative on prescribing the heavy hitter drugs until you get symptoms of active disease.  After all, most of these drugs you may be on for years, or even decades, so best to minimize the length of time you do have to take them to when they can do the most good.  Eventually side effects may require changing or dropping some drugs, so you want to be able to use them when you really need them. >Enbrel is a brand new treatment for P–as far as I know the only drawback is >its cost (about $1200.00 per month).

Most of the cost is usually covered by health insurance if it is prescribed for a covered application (psoriatic arthritis). I don’t think it has yet been approved for psoriasis of the skin (I may be wrong, but don’t think so).  There is an application pending for this application (US), but I don’t think it has come through yet.  This would make getting coverage for psoriasis of the skin alone problematic. One thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet is NOT to use the nails as "tools". Any perceived stress to or injury of the nails may cause the psoriasis to flare up under the nails, which is what is happening when you get nail psoriasis.  So do try to avoid picking things up with your nails (coins, etc), prying things with your nails (can flip tops, staples, envelope flaps, etc), peeling things with your nails (labels, tape, etc), or causing other minor stresses to the nails. Also take care ALWAYS to moisturize your nails well, tops and undersides, after you have been in water.  I always take a long, hot bath in the morning which helps to get my achy joints moving (great for the arthritis, LOUSY for the psoriasis).  Afterward I am generous with the Eucerin from the big white tub, which helps a lot. If you can, reduce the amount of time you spend soaking in water, use as little soap as possible, make the water warm rather than hot, and just get IN, get CLEAN, then get OUT of the bath or shower.  You will find this does help the nails as well as your skin. LadyAndy Chat live with us at >http://tinyurl.com/4ust < (this is at iVillageHealth – my chats are on Sun evenings at 10 ET) Joint Replacement Board at http://boards.ivillagehealth.com/cgi-bin/boards/bhivhjointreplace

Response:

>Recently, psoriasis has been affecting my fingernails–I have had some >problems with my toenails in the past. >My derm says that there is no way to treat psoriasis of the nail–has >anyone here had ANY luck with any treatments of their own? Any vitamin >supplements natural product suggestions? I would like to do something >to stop it before it gets out of hand. >I repeat, ANY suggestions would be appreciated.

I have had *excellent* results on this one aspect of psoriasis — only!  I picked up a recommendation on this group years ago for evening primrose oil (EPO), available at any drug store with a nutritional/herb section.  For me, taking one 500mg capsule per day (maybe two for the first week or so) cleared my nails, which I had had major trouble with for a couple of years.  The stuff must have worked almost immediately, but you don’t know for two or three weeks, when the new, clear nail grows out where you can see it. I’ve posted about this a dozen times or more over the years, you can google it up.  A few others have tried it and reported success. Others have tried it and had no luck.  It will probably be blocked by the use of aspirin, other NSAIDs, or cortisone.   There’s a lot published on both EPO and its (presumed) active ingredient, gamma linolenic acid (GLA).  A little pamphlet from Keats Publishing titled eponymously "Evening Primrose Oil", by Richard A. Passwater, is often available at health food stores.  It barely mentions psoriasis and nothing about nails (that I recall), but shows the metabolic path.  Another book, "Beyond Cortisone" by Martha Moore, also talks about EPO and has a bit more detail.  Somebody actually won a Nobel in medicine circa 1957 for mapping out the metabolism of essential fatty acids into prostaglandins, cytokines, leukotrienes, and such, that’s where this all comes from — that is, they were mapping normal metabolism, not researching psoriasis, so this doesn’t really explain how it helps psoriasis in general or nails in particular, just how it gets in the general area. EPO also helps (me!) with psoriasis overall, makes it a little milder, helps reduce scratch-and-bleed very substantially!  I find I can skip taking the capules for days once my nails are clear, but if I stop for more than two weeks, the nails mess up again.  I went through this cycle three or four times, it’s as real as anything I’ve ever seen. BTW, the EPO at Trader Joe’s market, if you live somewhere they have stores, is cheap and more effective for me than EPO I’ve gotten some other places.  The TJ’s version is straight, the stuff that does NOT work as well for me has vitamin E mixed in. Hope that helps! J.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Getting p of the nails is very important in trying to control.  That > is one way that it is able to spread thought the body.  For example, > Lets say that a person gets jock itch and/or athletes feet.  When you > scratch it with your nails, because it hurts so good, you then pass > the infection to the nails. So then once the nails become infected, > it then becomes easier to pass the infection to other parts of the > body, lets say by scratching your head and legs. > Once it has been passed on to the scalp and body.  Then the doctors > say you have psoriasis. > Trying to clear up my nails, has been the hardest to control. > My Doctor gave me a subscription of Lotrimin which I use on my nails. > It is a drug used for males with jock itch.  Also he said that I > could buy over the counter meds for jock itch and apply to my nails. > Then I just keep the nails trimmed back and clean the stuff under my > nails the best that I can. The Doctor told me that is the only way. > As the nails grows, I will have to keep them trimmed, until it has > all trimmed away. Do your best in keeping your nails dry.  Use gloves > when doing dishes and stuff.  And after using the gloves, turn the > gloves inside out and lay in by a window so that the sun can dry the > gloves.  Wash your hands, and re-apply the cream and/or lotion to the > nails. I buy the surgical gloves so that I never re use them. > I hope this helps you. > David

WHAT!! Please corect me people if I am wrong, but I was of the firm understanding that psoriasis cannot be passed on from one area of the body to another any more than it can be passed on from one person to another.

Response:

Look into Enbrel.  I’m seeing a rheumotologist who just prescribed Enbrel. The main purpose of the Enbrel is to deal with my P-arthritis, which in a period of about 6 months had begun pretty much making me sore all over pretty much all over all of the time. I started Enbrel last Wednesday, and I swear that my pain has already begun dimiishing.  (I observe it could be partly placebo–but if it works, so what). My doctor tells me that within 6 months, he thinks that I will no longer have nail problems (its on 5 nails) either (i.e., they will have grown back clean). P began effecting my nails about 8 months ago, first on my right pointer finger, then on my left big toe, then on my left thumb, then on my middle pointer, etc. I’m told that P on the nails is sign that P-arthiritis exists–ask your derm to send you to a rheumotologists.  P-on the nails is definitely not pleasing to look at, to say the least, and not nearly as easy to cover up as the skin (which I got first). WIth P-arthiritis, however, you not only see it, but you feel it, and it can hurt a lot and really slow you down.  You may want to look into whether you need to–and can–head it off. Enbrel is a brand new treatment for P–as far as I know the only drawback is its cost (about $1200.00 per month). . Good luck

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Recently, psoriasis has been affecting my fingernails–I have had some > problems with my toenails in the past. > My derm says that there is no way to treat psoriasis of the nail–has > anyone here had ANY luck with any treatments of their own? Any vitamin > supplements natural product suggestions? I would like to do something > to stop it before it gets out of hand. > I repeat, ANY suggestions would be appreciated.

Response:

No way isn’t accurate, although it is one of the hardest places to treat. Um, if that’s literallyu what was said, I would question how expert your derm is about P and consider finding one who is. Anyway, because it can be particularly tough, natural may not be a lot of help. Probably the first thing to try that way – JRStern has reported here getting good benefit from evening primrose oil there for one option. And you might try tweaking diet to see if that has any effect. You could also consider rubbing in any natural topicals that might have helped you  in the past elsewhere – like tea tree oil. Careful if you don’t know if that helps you otherwise, as it helps some but makes mine a lot worse. Also, look into changing the types of soaps you use and using a nail moisturizer to minimize damage and eliminate possible irritants triggering things. If you live in the cold weather, wear gloves – the small amount of nail P I get is almost always triggered by the cold weather. Doctors can try to apply some of the normal topicals there, depending upon where the P is located. They’ll even inject steroids, although that can reportedly be pretty painful and may not be effective. And systemmic drugs can clear it up too, although usually nail psoriasis alone is not considered worth the risk factors. The new NPF site lets non-members register for free to get access to their educational pamphlets. There’s one including info about this at http://www.psoriasis.org/resources/publications/booklets.php If you’re a member of the NPF you can also look thorugh their It Works for Me database of tips submitted by other members. You should also search the ng archives using the tools at http://www.pinch.com/skin    to see what others have said in the past. Here’s a general search under psoriasis and nails to get you started http://pinch.com/skinny?skin=nails+psoriasis BTW, I’m assuming you know that David meant well in the other reply but his post was based on an incorrect belief that psoriasis is contagious. Although it’s not impossible that there is a possibly contagious fungus of some sort on your nails making things worse, that’s separate from the psoriasis itself, which is not contagious. Best Kim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Recently, psoriasis has been affecting my fingernails–I have had some >problems with my toenails in the past. >My derm says that there is no way to treat psoriasis of the nail–has >anyone here had ANY luck with any treatments of their own? Any vitamin >supplements natural product suggestions? I would like to do something >to stop it before it gets out of hand. >I repeat, ANY suggestions would be appreciated.

Response:

> Recently, psoriasis has been affecting my fingernails–I have had some > problems with my toenails in the past. > My derm says that there is no way to treat psoriasis of the nail–has > anyone here had ANY luck with any treatments of their own? Any vitamin > supplements natural product suggestions? I would like to do something > to stop it before it gets out of hand. > I repeat, ANY suggestions would be appreciated.

My nails were the last thing to clear when I was doing PUVA and was close to 90% clear… I just keep mine short since their a little brittle….creams and oinments didn’t really seem to help mine…

Response:

Recently, psoriasis has been affecting my fingernails–I have had some problems with my toenails in the past. My derm says that there is no way to treat psoriasis of the nail–has anyone here had ANY luck with any treatments of their own? Any vitamin supplements natural product suggestions? I would like to do something to stop it before it gets out of hand. I repeat, ANY suggestions would be appreciated.

Response:

Getting p of the nails is very important in trying to control.  That is one way that it is able to spread thought the body.  For example,  Lets say that a person gets jock itch and/or athletes feet.  When you scratch it with your nails, because it hurts so good, you then pass the infection to the nails. So then once the nails become infected, it then becomes easier to pass the infection to other parts of the body, lets say by scratching your head and legs. Once it has been passed on to the scalp and body.  Then the doctors say you have psoriasis. Trying to clear up my nails, has been the hardest to control. My Doctor gave me a subscription of Lotrimin which I use on my nails.  It is a drug used for males with jock itch.  Also he said that I could buy over the counter meds for jock itch and apply to my nails.  Then I just keep the nails trimmed back and clean the stuff under my nails the best that I can. The Doctor told me that is the only way.  As the nails grows, I will have to keep them trimmed, until it has all trimmed away. Do your best in keeping your nails dry.  Use gloves when doing dishes and stuff.  And after using the gloves, turn the gloves inside out and lay in by a window so that the sun can dry the gloves.  Wash your hands, and re-apply the cream and/or lotion to the nails. I buy the surgical gloves so that I never re use them. I hope this helps you. David My nails should be back to normal in about two months.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Recently, psoriasis has been affecting my fingernails–I have had some > problems with my toenails in the past. > My derm says that there is no way to treat psoriasis of the nail–has > anyone here had ANY luck with any treatments of their own? Any vitamin > supplements natural product suggestions? I would like to do something > to stop it before it gets out of hand. > I repeat, ANY suggestions would be appreciated.

Response:

If anyone ever hears that Dovonex is being discontinued, please post it here. That would be extremely bad news for me! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Any chance your pharmacist is confusing it with Dritho – as in drithos > scalp, cream, etc. Those use anthralin and yeah, there have been > issues with availability of that and talk of no longer manufactuing > it. > Another possible problem relates to who they’re ordering from . It > used to be straightforward Bristol Squibb, but for a while now Leo > Pharamceuticals has been the listed actual manufacturer. They’re > either a subsidiary or a business partner. > Finally, even if it were true, there are new Vitamin D analogies in > development, with some listed at the npf pipeline > http://www.psoriasis.org/research/pipeline/chart.php > Kim >Has anyone had any problem finding Dovenex?  I have used Dovenex for many >years, and the last time I had my prescription filled, the pharmacist said >that she had a hard time getting it.  She said that her wholesaler told her >that it was going to be discontinued.  Has anyone else heard about this?

Response:

>Finally, even if it were true, there are new Vitamin D analogies in >development, with some listed at the npf pipeline

To be expected, if Dovonex patent is running out. >http://www.psoriasis.org/research/pipeline/chart.php

Yikes, needs updating!  Humira is approved, not Phase 1!  And Tazorac was approved what, five years ago?!??! J.

Response:

Any chance your pharmacist is confusing it with Dritho – as in drithos scalp, cream, etc. Those use anthralin and yeah, there have been issues with availability of that and talk of no longer manufactuing it. Another possible problem relates to who they’re ordering from . It used to be straightforward Bristol Squibb, but for a while now Leo Pharamceuticals has been the listed actual manufacturer. They’re either a subsidiary or a business partner. Finally, even if it were true, there are new Vitamin D analogies in development, with some listed at the npf pipeline http://www.psoriasis.org/research/pipeline/chart.php Kim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Has anyone had any problem finding Dovenex?  I have used Dovenex for many >years, and the last time I had my prescription filled, the pharmacist said >that she had a hard time getting it.  She said that her wholesaler told her >that it was going to be discontinued.  Has anyone else heard about this?

Response:

Rebecca, I use Dovonex daily & I have never had a problem getting it from my pharmacy. Also, I have not heard that it may be discontinued–I would be very upset if it was discontinued as it is the only topical that has ever consistently gotten rid of my psoriasis. I will ask my pharmacist next visit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Has anyone had any problem finding Dovenex?  I have used Dovenex for many > years, and the last time I had my prescription filled, the pharmacist said > that she had a hard time getting it.  She said that her wholesaler told her > that it was going to be discontinued.  Has anyone else heard about this?

Response:

Has anyone had any problem finding Dovenex?  I have used Dovenex for many years, and the last time I had my prescription filled, the pharmacist said that she had a hard time getting it.  She said that her wholesaler told her that it was going to be discontinued.  Has anyone else heard about this?

Response:

I haven’t heard of any availability problems, other than a long lead times (they don’t like to keep it on the shelves because of expiration at its high cost). I just had my prescription filled at Wal-Mart with no problems. A quick search on the net shows a number of suppliers.  The search also turned up an indication that the patent expires in December 2007.  I look forward go generics. Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Has anyone had any problem finding Dovenex?  I have used Dovenex for many > years, and the last time I had my prescription filled, the pharmacist said > that she had a hard time getting it.  She said that her wholesaler told her > that it was going to be discontinued.  Has anyone else heard about this?

Response:

> This is a real long shot: I had pyloric stenosis as a baby.  This is > thought to be genetic, but there was a cluster of cases in the Hudson > Valley around the early 60s, which included my daughter.  I had exzema > as a kid, "grew out of" that at about age 30-35, and now have had P for > several years – since my 50s.  I know pyloric stenosis is extremely > rare, but maybe we’re talking about the same bug…  Maybe I’ll try mastic. > Paul M.

Hi Paul, I rounded up a few links that have a couple of keywords to follow up on: This first one is so get the general area involved. http://www.pedisurg.com/PtEduc/Pyloric_Stenosis.htm The area afflicted is far from the colon, were you breast fed? And received some huge amount of antibiotics for this procedure? A shortage of NOS may be implicated for PS. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pyloric+stenosis+gene&hl=en&lr=&ie=… Here is a little gene info, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=OMIM&do… This may be congenital or caused by a lack of folate during fetal development. A heavy load of antibiotics would seem to be the offender as far as p is concerned, but, you were OK for a length of time prior to your P onset? So, i’m guessing you were breast fed and your late P onset were due to factors that go along with it. Please, see your doctor before doing anything more then chewing on a few sticks of mastic gum. And i think you can buy the gum thru the www.lef.org people. Good luck and please let us know anything that happens positive or negative. I for one am interested in your gut feelings on this one. randall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Hi, >>or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=OMIM&do… >>or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Omim/getmap?l177900 > I love these. Like looking at the makers maP. > What does in the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and > lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitious > enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the > P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP? > Don’t worry there are some real Medical options here also. > Ferret them out. > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=H.+Pylori+m… > Once again a S Harris post lights the way. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > Methylation due to a H. Pylori critter in the gut. > Possible DNA monkey bizness from a gut denizen? > This one just keeps poping uP in my little grey cells > as a result of crusiers emails. Thanks for the stimulation. > Do you want to chew on this one some? > Does Pylori indirectly mediate fatty acid metabolism? > randall… balsam gum to the gut rescue of P?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m looking for how the LPS gets into us in the > first place. That fact that it does is established. > The xoma pdf on endotoxins put that one in perspective. > Wouldn’t it be nice if we only needed to stop gut > permeability to a few lipids(A) or proteins > from one or two ubiquitous bugs? Can you think > of any other more likely candidates? > Here is a lead, > A protein that opens a little hole in the gut > and does something that lets LPS in? Toss in > some iNOS for inflammation etc. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > Of mice and men and gut things. NO and ONOO(-)!!!

That swedish P gene revelation is still stuck in my brain. So, i found some links to LPS, liver (kupffer cells) and that chloride channel and found these, Recently, it was demonstrated that liver injury and TNF-alpha production as a result of endotoxin (lipopolysaccharide, LPS) were attenuated by feeding animals a diet enriched with glycine. This phenomenon was shown to be a result of, at least in part, activation of a chloride channel in Kupffer cells by glycine, which hyperpolarizes the cell membrane and blunts increases in intracellular calcium concentrations ([Ca(2+)](i)) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… Recent studies have demonstrated that glycine blunts the response of Kupffer cells to endotoxin http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… Next, figuring out the co-transporter chloride gene overlap with PSOR5 susceptibility gene may give an understanding of why we don’t clear the LPS toxins from the liver fully. I wonder what the function of glycine and chloride to each other in the liver are? And how they affect P. Seems like we may have a shortage of glycine as far as p goes. With everything else going on, i wonder what some low amount of glycine will do? If it stops the LPS from bypassing the liver and is cleared by the kupffer cells in a nice orderly fashion then we’re in the money. Whoops, can’t forget glutamine. (next) randall… i bow my thinking cap to all with P that desire less P > P guts are either the same or almost the same > as any others in the population at large. > It has to be something right under our noses > that is evading the radar. IRVCOMM had antibiotics > for every combo of bug that they could find. > As i recall he had over 500 pathogenic bugs? > Or just plain bad gut bugs (aka- bad flora) > Did they learn anything decimating his gut flora?

Like, glutamine will help gut mucosa to recover. > If that Swedish study has found the genetic link > to a protein that is primary or secondary to P, > then it seems like a short hoP or jumP to dealing with it. > And what the heck is a chloride cotransporter have to do > with it?

H’mmmm. Got that one figured out, above. > I also posted an abstract that showed AA (arachidonic acid) > out of place in the lower part of the epidermis for P. > What does it take to start the cascade of inflammation? > Some NO with leaky cell membranes or apoptosis to spill > the mess? We have dendritic cells in the skin, gut and lymph. > If they’re reacting to LPS then why in the odd areas that > p develops in?

Take the knees or elbows? Why here and not in the scalp as much? > Think of your system like your car. Something is cloging > up the oil filter and the goop is causing friction in > the engine which shunts it out into your paint job that > is now rusting faster then normal cars rust. > That stuff gets in from the oil pan and disables > the filter and backs up the kidneys which throw > out nitric oxide (NO) to keep some homeostasis as a result > of the back pressure. Whoops, this example is going south > faster then your P. OK, your not your car. Your skin is > acting in concert to maintain pH balence and red is > a better color then white in the winter. Now the primer > coat… darn it.

Seems like the oil filter needs to have defined, how the chlorides work to lesson the damage from the LPS and stop it from getting around the filter, period. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You are your car and the antigens are sticking to > the paint and the adhesion proteins from the cytokines > are now joining the union and want higher wages. > So vote for me and i’ll clean up the air and water. > And protect the forests. > That clears things uP? > I feel like a blind man trying to explain what > an elephant looks like from touching its trunk. > Or in the case of P. Having a hundred blind men with DS (down’s) > feeling uP the critter and reporting it all back. > In their case the baby elephant eats the mothers poop to > establish good bacteria in its Gi tract! > And if someone feeds him to many banana’s > he get’s gas and not P. > Your not your car but you still need a new paint job.

And a new immune system and better oil filters etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

This is a real long shot: I had pyloric stenosis as a baby.  This is thought to be genetic, but there was a cluster of cases in the Hudson Valley around the early 60s, which included my daughter.  I had exzema as a kid, "grew out of" that at about age 30-35, and now have had P for several years – since my 50s.  I know pyloric stenosis is extremely rare, but maybe we’re talking about the same bug…  Maybe I’ll try mastic. Paul M. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi, >or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=OMIM&do… >or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Omim/getmap?l177900 > I love these. Like looking at the makers maP. > What does in the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and > lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitious > enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the > P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP? > Don’t worry there are some real Medical options here also. > Ferret them out. > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=H.+Pylori+m… > Once again a S Harris post lights the way. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > Methylation due to a H. Pylori critter in the gut. > Possible DNA monkey bizness from a gut denizen? > This one just keeps poping uP in my little grey cells > as a result of crusiers emails. Thanks for the stimulation. > Do you want to chew on this one some? > Does Pylori indirectly mediate fatty acid metabolism? > randall… balsam gum to the gut rescue of P?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >I love these. Like looking at the makers maP. > >What does in the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and > >lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitous > >enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the > >P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP? > Whatever role gut stuff has in psoriasis, it still seems to have a > genetic/hereditary aspect as well.  Lots of folks can have terribly > upset guts without their skin going nutz. > J. > Dear J, > I agree. Yes, for sure. Right on. Cool. > I’m looking for how the LPS gets into us in the > first place. That fact that it does is established. > The xoma pdf on endotoxins put that one in perspective. > Wouldn’t it be nice if we only needed to stop gut > permeability to a few lipids(A) or proteins > from one or two ubiquitous bugs? Can you think > of any other more likely candidates?

Here is a hint, A protein that opens a little hole in the gut and does something that lets LPS in? Toss in some iNOS for inflammation etc. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… Of mice and men and gut things. NO and ONOO(-)!!! Lions and tigers and bears, OH MY. Bacteria, proteins and antigens, OH MY P! > P guts are either the same or almost the same > as any others in the population at large. > It has to be something right under our noses > that is evading the radar. IRVCOMM had antibiotics > for every combo of bug that they could find.

As i recall he had over 500 pathogenic bugs? Or just plain bad gut bugs (aka- bad flora) > Did they learn anything decimating his gut flora? > If that Swedish study has found the genetic link > to a protein that is primary or secondary to P, > then it seems like a short hoP or jumP to dealing with it.

And what the heck is a chloride cotransporter have to do with it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I also posted an abstract that showed AA (arachidonic acid) > out of place in the lower part of the epidermis for P. > What does it take to start the cascade of inflammation? > Some NO with leaky cell membranes or apoptosis to spill > the mess? We have dendritic cells in the skin, gut and lymph. > If they’re reacting to LPS then why in the odd areas that > p develops in? > Think of your system like your car. Something is cloging > up the oil filter and the goop is causing friction in > the engine which shunts it out into your paint job that > is now rusting faster then normal cars rust. > That stuff gets in from the oil pan and disables > the filter and backs up the kidneys which throw > out nitric oxide (NO) to keep some homeostasis as a result > of the back pressure. Whoops, this example is going south > faster then your P. OK, your not your car. Your skin is > acting in concert to maintain pH balence and red is > a better color then white in the winter. Now the primer > coat… darn it. > You are your car and the antigens are sticking to > the paint and the adhesion proteins from the cytokines > are now joining the union and want higher wages. > So vote for me and i’ll clean up the air and water. > And protect the forests. > That clears things uP? > I feel like a blind man trying to explain what > an elephant looks like from touching its trunk.

Or in the case of P. Having a hundred blind men with DS feeling uP the critter and reporting it all back. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In their case the baby eats the mothers poop to > establish good bacteria in its Gi tract! > And if someone feeds him to many banana’s > he get’s gas and not P. > Your not your car but you still need a new paint job. > randall… are you haPPy NOw J?

Response:

> > Whatever role gut stuff has in psoriasis, it still seems to have a > genetic/hereditary aspect as well.  Lots of folks can have terribly > upset guts without their skin going nutz. > These new findings on eczema may lend some weight to this. The > peptides missing in the skin cause bacteria overgrowth and dermatitis. > Everyone that has a bad diet and lives in cities does not lose their > skin peptides, so those that do have a genetic disposition ? The next > question is : are atopics born without peptides, and then the whole > environment argument becomes difficult. The same may apply with the > gut dysbiosis.

The argument for P is different then for seb on the surface of the skin. How the two get to that point may be mechanically the same. Yet, without the proteins the point is moot. I’ll get some info on both. http://gnn.tigr.org/articles/07_02/stomach.shtml What is the mechanism that these proteins use to gain entry in the gut? By blocking their entry can we stop all LPS with a similar method? At this point seb and P would benefit from less LPS that mucks uP the system. Now, this is the point we part company; "Background The innate immune system of human skin contains antimicrobial peptides known as cathelicidins (LL-37) and -defensins.In normal skin these peptides are negligible, but they accumulate in skin affected by inflammatory diseases such as psoriasis." So, P people don’t need honey. We have to much antibiotics from our own natural pharma’s. You do mean to slather the honey topically? Or are you proposing an enema with it? > BTW Honey effectively inhibits H Pylori.

Oh, for the days of milk and honey. > Dig Dis Sci 1999 Mar;44(3):462-4 Related Articles, Links   > Osmotic effect of honey on growth and viability of Helicobacter > pylori. > Osato MS, Reddy SG, Graham DY. > Baylor College of Medicine and the Veterans Affairs Medical Center, > Department of Medicine, Houston, Texas 77030, USA > Honey solutions, with or without catalase, inhibited 24/28 isolates at > a concentration of 10%, and 28/28 isolates at a concentration of 15%.

This is all fine and good, but how do P’s benefit from it? As a part time caveman i try to avoid any extra sugars. And yet i’ve heard that honey from your local environs contains anti allergy stuff in it. Maybe during ragweed season. Nah. randall

Response:

>I love these. Like looking at the makers maP. >What does in the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and >lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitious >enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the >P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP?

Whatever role gut stuff has in psoriasis, it still seems to have a genetic/hereditary aspect as well.  Lots of folks can have terribly upset guts without their skin going nutz. J.

Response:

> Whatever role gut stuff has in psoriasis, it still seems to have a > genetic/hereditary aspect as well.  Lots of folks can have terribly > upset guts without their skin going nutz.

These new findings on eczema may lend some weight to this. The peptides missing in the skin cause bacteria overgrowth and dermatitis. Everyone that has a bad diet and lives in cities does not lose their skin peptides, so those that do have a genetic disposition ? The next question is : are atopics born without peptides, and then the whole environment argument becomes difficult. The same may apply with the gut dysbiosis. BTW Honey effectively inhibits H Pylori. Dig Dis Sci 1999 Mar;44(3):462-4 Related Articles, Links   Osmotic effect of honey on growth and viability of Helicobacter pylori. Osato MS, Reddy SG, Graham DY. Baylor College of Medicine and the Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Department of Medicine, Houston, Texas 77030, USA Honey solutions, with or without catalase, inhibited 24/28 isolates at a concentration of 10%, and 28/28 isolates at a concentration of 15%.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=OMIM&do… > or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Omim/getmap?l177900 > What happens to the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and > lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitious > enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the > P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP?

I wonder if taking H. Pylori out of the equation will help? (Reuters Health) – Scientists may be one step closer to developing a vaccine against the ulcer-causing stomach bug Helicobacter pylori. Infection with H. pylori bacteria is extremely common, with 70% of people worldwide estimated to carry the bug–although most will not develop ulcers or stomach cancer, another H. pylori-linked condition. Now researchers are putting together the secret behind the bacteria’s amazing staying power in the human stomach–in findings they say could lead to a vaccine or better treatments for H. pylori infection. The international research team has identified a so-called adhesin protein on the H. pylori bacterial surface that allows it to get a strong grip on cells lining the stomach. This protein, dubbed SabA, along with a similar H. pylori protein the researchers discovered several years ago (called BabA), could form the basis of an H. pylori vaccine. "BabA and SabA are proteins that are absolutely unique [to] H. pylori," the study’s lead author, Dr. Thomas Boren of Umea University in Sweden, told Reuters Health. "These proteins," he said, "are prime candidates for a vaccine that would be specific for Helicobacter and would not affect any other bacteria." Such specificity, Boren noted, is particularly important in the gastrointestinal tract, where many beneficial bacteria dwell. He and his colleagues report their study results in the July 26th issue of Science. Their findings also highlight how sly H. pylori must be to maintain such a foothold in the stomach. Both of its "attachment" proteins, BabA and SabA, bind to sugar molecules that are displayed on the surface of stomach cells in order to alert immune cells to an infection. So H. pylori actually uses these molecular distress signals for even stronger binding to stomach cells, Boren explained. This tactic is thought to allow at least some H. pylori bacteria in the stomach to evade the immune system. But if a vaccine can train the immune system to specifically recognize BabA and SabA, Boren said, "the H. pylori bacteria will then have a hard time in the stomach defending themselves against the activated and targeted immune response." He noted that his team has already tested a BabA-based vaccine in mice, and will now try adding the SabA protein to the mix. Even if these experiments are successful, though, Boren said it would be 6 to 8 years until an H. pylori vaccine is available. Science 2002;297:573-578.   Where in Sweden did we hear of two proteins recently? > Don’t worry there are some real Medical options here also. > Ferret them out. > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=H.+Pylori+m… > Once again a S Harris post lights the way. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > Methylation due to a H. Pylori critter in the gut. > Possible DNA monkey bizness from a gut denizen?

A pubmed abstract shows a 50% reduction in H. Pylori from mastic gum. Someone of us should chew a few packs. I don’t want to wait eight years for anything. Unless i’m in prison and have no other choice. I guess that what p is all about? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you want to chew on this one some? > Does Pylori indirectly mediate fatty acid metabolism? > randall… balsam gum to the gut rescue of P?

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> >I love these. Like looking at the makers maP. >What does in the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and >lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitous >enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the >P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP? > Whatever role gut stuff has in psoriasis, it still seems to have a > genetic/hereditary aspect as well.  Lots of folks can have terribly > upset guts without their skin going nutz. > J.

Dear J, I agree. Yes, for sure. Right on. Cool. I’m looking for how the LPS gets into us in the first place. That fact that it does is established. The xoma pdf on endotoxins put that one in perspective. Wouldn’t it be nice if we only needed to stop gut permeability to a few lipids(A) or proteins from one or two ubiquitous bugs? Can you think of any other more likely candidates? P guts are either the same or almost the same as any others in the population at large. It has to be something right under our noses that is evading the radar. IRVCOMM had antibiotics for every combo of bug that they could find. Did they learn anything decimating his gut flora? If that Swedish study has found the genetic link to a protein that is primary or secondary to P, then it seems like a short hoP or jumP dealing with it. I also posted an abstract that showed AA (arachidonic acid) out of place in the lower part of the epidermis for P. What does it take to start the cascade of inflammation? Some NO with leaky cell membranes or apoptosis to spill the mess? We have dendritic cells in the skin, gut and lymph. If they’re reacting to LPS then why in the odd areas that p develops in? Think of your system like your car. Something is cloging up the oil filter and the goop is causing friction in the engine which shunts it out into your paint job that is now rusting faster then normal cars rust. That stuff gets in from the oil pan and disables the filter and backs up the kidneys which throw out nitric oxide (NO) to keep some homeostasis as a result of the back pressure. Whoops, this example is going south faster then your P. OK, your not your car. Your skin is acting in concert to maintain pH balence and red is a better color then white in the winter. Now the primer coat… darn it. You are your car and the antigens are sticking to the paint and the adhesion proteins from the cytokines are now joining the union and want higher wages. So vote for me and i’ll clean up the air and water. And protect the forests. That clears things uP? I feel like a blind man trying to explain what an elephant looks like from touching its trunk. In their case the baby eats the mothers poop to establish good bacteria in its Gi tract! And if someone feeds him to many banana’s he get’s gas and not P. Your not your car but you still need a new paint job. randall… are you haPPy NOw J?

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> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=OMIM&do… > Hi, > I went into the OMIM to check this SLC12A8 out and > found it in the protein directory and also pubmed > abstract.

The Swedish researchers found something on gene 3 in their discovery announced on October 4, 2002 or thereabouts. Did the British find the same thing? > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > To check it out click the box on the left and click protein > and enter SLC12A8.

The PSOR5 susceptibility gene is on 3q21 (604316) > The only other thing that stands out with SCL12A is > reading the above abstract this P suspect gene has something to do > with cation-chloride cotransporters? Am i wrong? > There are about 40 hits on pubmed. I list two here. > The diuretic-sensitive cotransport of cations with chloride is > mediated by the cation-chloride cotransporters, a large gene family > encompassing a total of seven Na-Cl, Na-K-2Cl, and K-Cl > cotransporters, in addition to two related transporters of unknown > function

(so what do they do?) Flood the extracellular fluid and and cause apoptosis? Didn’t the swedish news release say something to that effect for the discovered P gene? > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > The electroneutral cotransport of potassium and chloride is mediated > by potassium-chloride transporters, which are encoded by members of > the gene family of cation-chloride cotransporters > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&…

Did the Swedes find what one of the two proteins does, is related to P? > Whoops can’t recall this one. It’s here now. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&…

OK? What? If LPS/? causes back pressure in the kidneys it raises NO levels and that may account for FAS in the wrong levels of the skin? I know its a stretch. Cytoprotective effects of nitrates in a cellular model of hydronephrosis. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… So the basket case of p maladies could be explained partially by the effects of inflammation working to protect organs (kidneys) with the use of NO (nitric oxide). A closer look at the mechanical pathways involved may explain more. Or explain why this hypothesis doesn’t work. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> randall…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >I wonder what this one means. In relationship to the other seven > >P genes, anyway. > >You suppose those scientist will go on finding p genes forever? > The article says expression was increased, not that it was unique to > psoriasis. > Maybe six or so of these genes is just involved in the inflammatory > process rather than being directly causative. > J. > Hi, > I couldn’t wait or i may have forgotten this. > I found 1600 hits on gene transcriptions & fatty acids. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > Selective cooperation between fatty acid binding proteins and > peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors in regulating > transcription > Now we are back to the PPAR thread! Holy cow, how much > CoQ10 is in that meat?

OK! Here is a conclusion from a link posted to the PPAR gene thread. [...] The discovery of PPARs and identification of fatty acids and their derivatives as ligands, a few years ago, have uncovered an unexpected and fascinating regulatory mode of action of lipids as direct modulators of gene expression. Since then, the excitement has not weakened while compelling evidence has accumulated that PPAR and PPAR act at crucial nodes of the regulatory network that achieve energy homeostasis in the organism. More specifically, an emerging picture is that of a dual and complementary role of PPAR and – isotypes in the regulation of the catabolic and anabolic aspects of lipid metabolism, respectively. Stimulating findings also include the discovery that lipid mediators, such as some eicosanoids (leukotrienes and prostaglandins), are natural PPAR ligands, opening new perspectives for investigating possible novel determinants of energy balance, as well as novel functions for PPARs, with links to glucose homeostasis, cell cycle control, inflammation, and immune response. As a corollary, PPARs are promising targets for therapeutic intervention, through the development of agonists but also antagonists, in disorders such as obesity and diabetes, atherosclerosis, chronic inflammatory diseases, and tumorigenesis. However, one characteristic of the PPARs is that their activation can occur through a broad spectrum of ligands with rather low affinity. This implies that particular care must be taken when assessing the PPAR dependence of a given signaling pathway. More interestingly, some signals might be transduced by different ways, as exemplified by the subtle interplay between the membrane and nuclear receptors, introducing new levels of complexity in PPAR biology as determinants of the fine tuning of interconnected metabolic processes. The above being the conclusion from this 1999 abstract on PPAR’s http://edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/20/5/649 The best way to update yourself from 99 to the present is simply enter PPAR into the pubmed site and read em chronologically to the present. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> randall

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>>Who KNEW that the seb derms had the same genes but not >the two proteins that make defensins and cathelcidins? >Wait a minute, if they had 100% the same genes, we *presume* we would >all have the same proteins.

… plus or minus exogenous factors, eg exposure to disease. J.

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> Selective cooperation between fatty acid binding proteins and > peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors in regulating > transcription > Now we are back to the PPAR thread! Holy cow, how much > CoQ10 is in that meat? > randall

LOL ! Want to resurrect the diabetes-insulin-ppar-psoriasis blowtorch wars ?! Seriously, this stuff is starting to show more links than ever. IMO.

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> >I hope anyway. I loved to eat a few things with impunity. > I prefer Grey Poupon.

Does it have chinese mustard in it? >Who KNEW that the seb derms had the same genes but not >the two proteins that make defensins and cathelcidins? > Wait a minute, if they had 100% the same genes, we *presume* we would > all have the same proteins.

We’ve left the seb vs P thread, so i’ll grab up some info from them to refresh the conversation. >And as evetsm has said concerning the similarities and differences we >all share the small differences are huge yet all clues.

Yep. (J said) >We, you and i, do differ on omega6/egg yolks/borage oil/EPO? >Do we NOT? (randall said)

Dunno. (J said) Maybe the benefits I see from eggs and EPO are all benefits to secondary problems that I have and you don’t, even while they actually aggravate the underlying primary psoriasis. (J said) J. Post number 11 in this thread is a PPAR and fatty acid thing for regulating gene transcription. And the above foods all have fatty acids in them. LA, LNA, EFA’s and more then i can list. N-3’s and N-6’s needing close attention plus the interaction of refined sugars with Tnf and iNOS. Here is the abstract on the two proteins, Background The innate immune system of human skin contains antimicrobial peptides known as cathelicidins (LL-37) and -defensins. In normal skin these peptides are negligible, but they accumulate in skin affected by inflammatory diseases such as psoriasis. We compared the levels of expression of LL-37 and human -defensin 2 (HBD-2) in inflamed skin from patients with atopic dermatitis and from those with psoriasis. Methods The expression of LL-37 and HBD-2 protein in skin-biopsy specimens from patients with psoriasis, patients with atopic dermatitis, and normal subjects was determined by immunohistochemical analysis. The amount of antimicrobial peptides in extracts of skin samples was also analyzed by immunodot blot analysis (for LL-37) and Western blot analysis (for HBD-2). Quantitative, real-time reverse-transcriptase

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello I wonder if anyone can help, > I first had psoriasis in my teens which started out as pustules which wept, > that appeared almost overnight.  I was prescribed an anti-histamine which > did not help and after a long time the psoriasis was diagnosed.  I kept this > at bay with dovonex and one time PUVA treatment.  My problem now is that it > has come back with a vengeance 10 years later.  The patches start as small > dots which grow and develop scaling.  Any type of trauma a nick or a scratch > will a week later be a new patch.  A month ago I was fairly clear and now > the small ‘dots’ are all over.  I get pinspot bleeding and the scales are > very raised and red in the established areas.  The itching is driving me mad > and I am worried about the hundreds of tiny dots. > I was once told I have a form of psoriasis that is more commonly seen in > children, could this be true ? > I see a dermatologist in a months time.  Any advice would be welcome. > thanks > Michelle

Check out http://www.psoriasis.org/ Take a look at the pictures and info there. They are by far the best source available. — Chuck "If you once forfeit the confidence of your fellow citizens, you can never regain it. It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time." Abraham Lincoln

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello I wonder if anyone can help, > I first had psoriasis in my teens which started out as pustules which wept, > that appeared almost overnight.  I was prescribed an anti-histamine which > did not help and after a long time the psoriasis was diagnosed.  I kept this > at bay with dovonex and one time PUVA treatment.  My problem now is that it > has come back with a vengeance 10 years later.  The patches start as small > dots which grow and develop scaling.  Any type of trauma a nick or a scratch > will a week later be a new patch.  A month ago I was fairly clear and now > the small ‘dots’ are all over.  I get pinspot bleeding and the scales are > very raised and red in the established areas.  The itching is driving me mad > and I am worried about the hundreds of tiny dots. > I was once told I have a form of psoriasis that is more commonly seen in > children, could this be true ? > I see a dermatologist in a months time.  Any advice would be welcome.

I’m sure someone with more knowledge will answer your questions better than I can.  But I do know there are different types of P.  Pustular is one. Then there is inverse, that often appears in the groin, armpits and other places that tend to be moist.  It is red, but usually no plaques.  There is another type called Guttate that has little drop-like spots.  I think this is the one that is more common in kids.  I’m sure there are others that I’ve missed. There is something called Koebners response.  If you have this, any trauma to the area can cause P to appear there. Don’t know what to tell you about the itching.  I guess I’m lucky in that the areas where I have P are very small.  And since I have other skin problems that are more bothersome than the P, I don’t pay it much mind.  I make sure to use a moisturizing wash when I shower, and apply more moisturizer afterwards.  I’ve found that plain shea butter works very well for me.  Cocoa butter works pretty well for me too.  I keep a stick of it in my purse and will apply it if any itching or bleeding starts up while I’m out. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ Julie Bove, posting from new account

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Hello I wonder if anyone can help, I first had psoriasis in my teens which started out as pustules which wept, that appeared almost overnight.  I was prescribed an anti-histamine which did not help and after a long time the psoriasis was diagnosed.  I kept this at bay with dovonex and one time PUVA treatment.  My problem now is that it has come back with a vengeance 10 years later.  The patches start as small dots which grow and develop scaling.  Any type of trauma a nick or a scratch will a week later be a new patch.  A month ago I was fairly clear and now the small ‘dots’ are all over.  I get pinspot bleeding and the scales are very raised and red in the established areas.  The itching is driving me mad and I am worried about the hundreds of tiny dots. I was once told I have a form of psoriasis that is more commonly seen in children, could this be true ? I see a dermatologist in a months time.  Any advice would be welcome. thanks Michelle

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