Question:

> This is a real long shot: I had pyloric stenosis as a baby.  This is > thought to be genetic, but there was a cluster of cases in the Hudson > Valley around the early 60s, which included my daughter.  I had exzema > as a kid, "grew out of" that at about age 30-35, and now have had P for > several years – since my 50s.  I know pyloric stenosis is extremely > rare, but maybe we’re talking about the same bug…  Maybe I’ll try mastic. > Paul M.

Hi Paul, I rounded up a few links that have a couple of keywords to follow up on: This first one is so get the general area involved. http://www.pedisurg.com/PtEduc/Pyloric_Stenosis.htm The area afflicted is far from the colon, were you breast fed? And received some huge amount of antibiotics for this procedure? A shortage of NOS may be implicated for PS. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pyloric+stenosis+gene&hl=en&lr=&ie=… Here is a little gene info, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=OMIM&do… This may be congenital or caused by a lack of folate during fetal development. A heavy load of antibiotics would seem to be the offender as far as p is concerned, but, you were OK for a length of time prior to your P onset? So, i’m guessing you were breast fed and your late P onset were due to factors that go along with it. Please, see your doctor before doing anything more then chewing on a few sticks of mastic gum. And i think you can buy the gum thru the www.lef.org people. Good luck and please let us know anything that happens positive or negative. I for one am interested in your gut feelings on this one. randall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Hi, >>or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=OMIM&do… >>or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Omim/getmap?l177900 > I love these. Like looking at the makers maP. > What does in the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and > lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitious > enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the > P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP? > Don’t worry there are some real Medical options here also. > Ferret them out. > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=H.+Pylori+m… > Once again a S Harris post lights the way. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > Methylation due to a H. Pylori critter in the gut. > Possible DNA monkey bizness from a gut denizen? > This one just keeps poping uP in my little grey cells > as a result of crusiers emails. Thanks for the stimulation. > Do you want to chew on this one some? > Does Pylori indirectly mediate fatty acid metabolism? > randall… balsam gum to the gut rescue of P?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m looking for how the LPS gets into us in the > first place. That fact that it does is established. > The xoma pdf on endotoxins put that one in perspective. > Wouldn’t it be nice if we only needed to stop gut > permeability to a few lipids(A) or proteins > from one or two ubiquitous bugs? Can you think > of any other more likely candidates? > Here is a lead, > A protein that opens a little hole in the gut > and does something that lets LPS in? Toss in > some iNOS for inflammation etc. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > Of mice and men and gut things. NO and ONOO(-)!!!

That swedish P gene revelation is still stuck in my brain. So, i found some links to LPS, liver (kupffer cells) and that chloride channel and found these, Recently, it was demonstrated that liver injury and TNF-alpha production as a result of endotoxin (lipopolysaccharide, LPS) were attenuated by feeding animals a diet enriched with glycine. This phenomenon was shown to be a result of, at least in part, activation of a chloride channel in Kupffer cells by glycine, which hyperpolarizes the cell membrane and blunts increases in intracellular calcium concentrations ([Ca(2+)](i)) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… Recent studies have demonstrated that glycine blunts the response of Kupffer cells to endotoxin http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… Next, figuring out the co-transporter chloride gene overlap with PSOR5 susceptibility gene may give an understanding of why we don’t clear the LPS toxins from the liver fully. I wonder what the function of glycine and chloride to each other in the liver are? And how they affect P. Seems like we may have a shortage of glycine as far as p goes. With everything else going on, i wonder what some low amount of glycine will do? If it stops the LPS from bypassing the liver and is cleared by the kupffer cells in a nice orderly fashion then we’re in the money. Whoops, can’t forget glutamine. (next) randall… i bow my thinking cap to all with P that desire less P > P guts are either the same or almost the same > as any others in the population at large. > It has to be something right under our noses > that is evading the radar. IRVCOMM had antibiotics > for every combo of bug that they could find. > As i recall he had over 500 pathogenic bugs? > Or just plain bad gut bugs (aka- bad flora) > Did they learn anything decimating his gut flora?

Like, glutamine will help gut mucosa to recover. > If that Swedish study has found the genetic link > to a protein that is primary or secondary to P, > then it seems like a short hoP or jumP to dealing with it. > And what the heck is a chloride cotransporter have to do > with it?

H’mmmm. Got that one figured out, above. > I also posted an abstract that showed AA (arachidonic acid) > out of place in the lower part of the epidermis for P. > What does it take to start the cascade of inflammation? > Some NO with leaky cell membranes or apoptosis to spill > the mess? We have dendritic cells in the skin, gut and lymph. > If they’re reacting to LPS then why in the odd areas that > p develops in?

Take the knees or elbows? Why here and not in the scalp as much? > Think of your system like your car. Something is cloging > up the oil filter and the goop is causing friction in > the engine which shunts it out into your paint job that > is now rusting faster then normal cars rust. > That stuff gets in from the oil pan and disables > the filter and backs up the kidneys which throw > out nitric oxide (NO) to keep some homeostasis as a result > of the back pressure. Whoops, this example is going south > faster then your P. OK, your not your car. Your skin is > acting in concert to maintain pH balence and red is > a better color then white in the winter. Now the primer > coat… darn it.

Seems like the oil filter needs to have defined, how the chlorides work to lesson the damage from the LPS and stop it from getting around the filter, period. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You are your car and the antigens are sticking to > the paint and the adhesion proteins from the cytokines > are now joining the union and want higher wages. > So vote for me and i’ll clean up the air and water. > And protect the forests. > That clears things uP? > I feel like a blind man trying to explain what > an elephant looks like from touching its trunk. > Or in the case of P. Having a hundred blind men with DS (down’s) > feeling uP the critter and reporting it all back. > In their case the baby elephant eats the mothers poop to > establish good bacteria in its Gi tract! > And if someone feeds him to many banana’s > he get’s gas and not P. > Your not your car but you still need a new paint job.

And a new immune system and better oil filters etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

This is a real long shot: I had pyloric stenosis as a baby.  This is thought to be genetic, but there was a cluster of cases in the Hudson Valley around the early 60s, which included my daughter.  I had exzema as a kid, "grew out of" that at about age 30-35, and now have had P for several years – since my 50s.  I know pyloric stenosis is extremely rare, but maybe we’re talking about the same bug…  Maybe I’ll try mastic. Paul M. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi, >or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=OMIM&do… >or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Omim/getmap?l177900 > I love these. Like looking at the makers maP. > What does in the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and > lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitious > enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the > P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP? > Don’t worry there are some real Medical options here also. > Ferret them out. > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=H.+Pylori+m… > Once again a S Harris post lights the way. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > Methylation due to a H. Pylori critter in the gut. > Possible DNA monkey bizness from a gut denizen? > This one just keeps poping uP in my little grey cells > as a result of crusiers emails. Thanks for the stimulation. > Do you want to chew on this one some? > Does Pylori indirectly mediate fatty acid metabolism? > randall… balsam gum to the gut rescue of P?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >I love these. Like looking at the makers maP. > >What does in the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and > >lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitous > >enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the > >P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP? > Whatever role gut stuff has in psoriasis, it still seems to have a > genetic/hereditary aspect as well.  Lots of folks can have terribly > upset guts without their skin going nutz. > J. > Dear J, > I agree. Yes, for sure. Right on. Cool. > I’m looking for how the LPS gets into us in the > first place. That fact that it does is established. > The xoma pdf on endotoxins put that one in perspective. > Wouldn’t it be nice if we only needed to stop gut > permeability to a few lipids(A) or proteins > from one or two ubiquitous bugs? Can you think > of any other more likely candidates?

Here is a hint, A protein that opens a little hole in the gut and does something that lets LPS in? Toss in some iNOS for inflammation etc. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… Of mice and men and gut things. NO and ONOO(-)!!! Lions and tigers and bears, OH MY. Bacteria, proteins and antigens, OH MY P! > P guts are either the same or almost the same > as any others in the population at large. > It has to be something right under our noses > that is evading the radar. IRVCOMM had antibiotics > for every combo of bug that they could find.

As i recall he had over 500 pathogenic bugs? Or just plain bad gut bugs (aka- bad flora) > Did they learn anything decimating his gut flora? > If that Swedish study has found the genetic link > to a protein that is primary or secondary to P, > then it seems like a short hoP or jumP to dealing with it.

And what the heck is a chloride cotransporter have to do with it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I also posted an abstract that showed AA (arachidonic acid) > out of place in the lower part of the epidermis for P. > What does it take to start the cascade of inflammation? > Some NO with leaky cell membranes or apoptosis to spill > the mess? We have dendritic cells in the skin, gut and lymph. > If they’re reacting to LPS then why in the odd areas that > p develops in? > Think of your system like your car. Something is cloging > up the oil filter and the goop is causing friction in > the engine which shunts it out into your paint job that > is now rusting faster then normal cars rust. > That stuff gets in from the oil pan and disables > the filter and backs up the kidneys which throw > out nitric oxide (NO) to keep some homeostasis as a result > of the back pressure. Whoops, this example is going south > faster then your P. OK, your not your car. Your skin is > acting in concert to maintain pH balence and red is > a better color then white in the winter. Now the primer > coat… darn it. > You are your car and the antigens are sticking to > the paint and the adhesion proteins from the cytokines > are now joining the union and want higher wages. > So vote for me and i’ll clean up the air and water. > And protect the forests. > That clears things uP? > I feel like a blind man trying to explain what > an elephant looks like from touching its trunk.

Or in the case of P. Having a hundred blind men with DS feeling uP the critter and reporting it all back. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In their case the baby eats the mothers poop to > establish good bacteria in its Gi tract! > And if someone feeds him to many banana’s > he get’s gas and not P. > Your not your car but you still need a new paint job. > randall… are you haPPy NOw J?

Response:

> > Whatever role gut stuff has in psoriasis, it still seems to have a > genetic/hereditary aspect as well.  Lots of folks can have terribly > upset guts without their skin going nutz. > These new findings on eczema may lend some weight to this. The > peptides missing in the skin cause bacteria overgrowth and dermatitis. > Everyone that has a bad diet and lives in cities does not lose their > skin peptides, so those that do have a genetic disposition ? The next > question is : are atopics born without peptides, and then the whole > environment argument becomes difficult. The same may apply with the > gut dysbiosis.

The argument for P is different then for seb on the surface of the skin. How the two get to that point may be mechanically the same. Yet, without the proteins the point is moot. I’ll get some info on both. http://gnn.tigr.org/articles/07_02/stomach.shtml What is the mechanism that these proteins use to gain entry in the gut? By blocking their entry can we stop all LPS with a similar method? At this point seb and P would benefit from less LPS that mucks uP the system. Now, this is the point we part company; "Background The innate immune system of human skin contains antimicrobial peptides known as cathelicidins (LL-37) and -defensins.In normal skin these peptides are negligible, but they accumulate in skin affected by inflammatory diseases such as psoriasis." So, P people don’t need honey. We have to much antibiotics from our own natural pharma’s. You do mean to slather the honey topically? Or are you proposing an enema with it? > BTW Honey effectively inhibits H Pylori.

Oh, for the days of milk and honey. > Dig Dis Sci 1999 Mar;44(3):462-4 Related Articles, Links   > Osmotic effect of honey on growth and viability of Helicobacter > pylori. > Osato MS, Reddy SG, Graham DY. > Baylor College of Medicine and the Veterans Affairs Medical Center, > Department of Medicine, Houston, Texas 77030, USA > Honey solutions, with or without catalase, inhibited 24/28 isolates at > a concentration of 10%, and 28/28 isolates at a concentration of 15%.

This is all fine and good, but how do P’s benefit from it? As a part time caveman i try to avoid any extra sugars. And yet i’ve heard that honey from your local environs contains anti allergy stuff in it. Maybe during ragweed season. Nah. randall

Response:

>I love these. Like looking at the makers maP. >What does in the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and >lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitious >enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the >P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP?

Whatever role gut stuff has in psoriasis, it still seems to have a genetic/hereditary aspect as well.  Lots of folks can have terribly upset guts without their skin going nutz. J.

Response:

> Whatever role gut stuff has in psoriasis, it still seems to have a > genetic/hereditary aspect as well.  Lots of folks can have terribly > upset guts without their skin going nutz.

These new findings on eczema may lend some weight to this. The peptides missing in the skin cause bacteria overgrowth and dermatitis. Everyone that has a bad diet and lives in cities does not lose their skin peptides, so those that do have a genetic disposition ? The next question is : are atopics born without peptides, and then the whole environment argument becomes difficult. The same may apply with the gut dysbiosis. BTW Honey effectively inhibits H Pylori. Dig Dis Sci 1999 Mar;44(3):462-4 Related Articles, Links   Osmotic effect of honey on growth and viability of Helicobacter pylori. Osato MS, Reddy SG, Graham DY. Baylor College of Medicine and the Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Department of Medicine, Houston, Texas 77030, USA Honey solutions, with or without catalase, inhibited 24/28 isolates at a concentration of 10%, and 28/28 isolates at a concentration of 15%.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=OMIM&do… > or, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Omim/getmap?l177900 > What happens to the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and > lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitious > enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the > P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP?

I wonder if taking H. Pylori out of the equation will help? (Reuters Health) – Scientists may be one step closer to developing a vaccine against the ulcer-causing stomach bug Helicobacter pylori. Infection with H. pylori bacteria is extremely common, with 70% of people worldwide estimated to carry the bug–although most will not develop ulcers or stomach cancer, another H. pylori-linked condition. Now researchers are putting together the secret behind the bacteria’s amazing staying power in the human stomach–in findings they say could lead to a vaccine or better treatments for H. pylori infection. The international research team has identified a so-called adhesin protein on the H. pylori bacterial surface that allows it to get a strong grip on cells lining the stomach. This protein, dubbed SabA, along with a similar H. pylori protein the researchers discovered several years ago (called BabA), could form the basis of an H. pylori vaccine. "BabA and SabA are proteins that are absolutely unique [to] H. pylori," the study’s lead author, Dr. Thomas Boren of Umea University in Sweden, told Reuters Health. "These proteins," he said, "are prime candidates for a vaccine that would be specific for Helicobacter and would not affect any other bacteria." Such specificity, Boren noted, is particularly important in the gastrointestinal tract, where many beneficial bacteria dwell. He and his colleagues report their study results in the July 26th issue of Science. Their findings also highlight how sly H. pylori must be to maintain such a foothold in the stomach. Both of its "attachment" proteins, BabA and SabA, bind to sugar molecules that are displayed on the surface of stomach cells in order to alert immune cells to an infection. So H. pylori actually uses these molecular distress signals for even stronger binding to stomach cells, Boren explained. This tactic is thought to allow at least some H. pylori bacteria in the stomach to evade the immune system. But if a vaccine can train the immune system to specifically recognize BabA and SabA, Boren said, "the H. pylori bacteria will then have a hard time in the stomach defending themselves against the activated and targeted immune response." He noted that his team has already tested a BabA-based vaccine in mice, and will now try adding the SabA protein to the mix. Even if these experiments are successful, though, Boren said it would be 6 to 8 years until an H. pylori vaccine is available. Science 2002;297:573-578.   Where in Sweden did we hear of two proteins recently? > Don’t worry there are some real Medical options here also. > Ferret them out. > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=H.+Pylori+m… > Once again a S Harris post lights the way. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > Methylation due to a H. Pylori critter in the gut. > Possible DNA monkey bizness from a gut denizen?

A pubmed abstract shows a 50% reduction in H. Pylori from mastic gum. Someone of us should chew a few packs. I don’t want to wait eight years for anything. Unless i’m in prison and have no other choice. I guess that what p is all about? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you want to chew on this one some? > Does Pylori indirectly mediate fatty acid metabolism? > randall… balsam gum to the gut rescue of P?

Response:

> >I love these. Like looking at the makers maP. >What does in the proper digestion of fats and influences DNA and >lives in the gut and has been mentioned here and is ubiquitous >enough to be a p suspect? Just another culPrit in the >P basket case of maladies? Can chewing some gum helP? > Whatever role gut stuff has in psoriasis, it still seems to have a > genetic/hereditary aspect as well.  Lots of folks can have terribly > upset guts without their skin going nutz. > J.

Dear J, I agree. Yes, for sure. Right on. Cool. I’m looking for how the LPS gets into us in the first place. That fact that it does is established. The xoma pdf on endotoxins put that one in perspective. Wouldn’t it be nice if we only needed to stop gut permeability to a few lipids(A) or proteins from one or two ubiquitous bugs? Can you think of any other more likely candidates? P guts are either the same or almost the same as any others in the population at large. It has to be something right under our noses that is evading the radar. IRVCOMM had antibiotics for every combo of bug that they could find. Did they learn anything decimating his gut flora? If that Swedish study has found the genetic link to a protein that is primary or secondary to P, then it seems like a short hoP or jumP dealing with it. I also posted an abstract that showed AA (arachidonic acid) out of place in the lower part of the epidermis for P. What does it take to start the cascade of inflammation? Some NO with leaky cell membranes or apoptosis to spill the mess? We have dendritic cells in the skin, gut and lymph. If they’re reacting to LPS then why in the odd areas that p develops in? Think of your system like your car. Something is cloging up the oil filter and the goop is causing friction in the engine which shunts it out into your paint job that is now rusting faster then normal cars rust. That stuff gets in from the oil pan and disables the filter and backs up the kidneys which throw out nitric oxide (NO) to keep some homeostasis as a result of the back pressure. Whoops, this example is going south faster then your P. OK, your not your car. Your skin is acting in concert to maintain pH balence and red is a better color then white in the winter. Now the primer coat… darn it. You are your car and the antigens are sticking to the paint and the adhesion proteins from the cytokines are now joining the union and want higher wages. So vote for me and i’ll clean up the air and water. And protect the forests. That clears things uP? I feel like a blind man trying to explain what an elephant looks like from touching its trunk. In their case the baby eats the mothers poop to establish good bacteria in its Gi tract! And if someone feeds him to many banana’s he get’s gas and not P. Your not your car but you still need a new paint job. randall… are you haPPy NOw J?

Response:

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=OMIM&do… > Hi, > I went into the OMIM to check this SLC12A8 out and > found it in the protein directory and also pubmed > abstract.

The Swedish researchers found something on gene 3 in their discovery announced on October 4, 2002 or thereabouts. Did the British find the same thing? > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > To check it out click the box on the left and click protein > and enter SLC12A8.

The PSOR5 susceptibility gene is on 3q21 (604316) > The only other thing that stands out with SCL12A is > reading the above abstract this P suspect gene has something to do > with cation-chloride cotransporters? Am i wrong? > There are about 40 hits on pubmed. I list two here. > The diuretic-sensitive cotransport of cations with chloride is > mediated by the cation-chloride cotransporters, a large gene family > encompassing a total of seven Na-Cl, Na-K-2Cl, and K-Cl > cotransporters, in addition to two related transporters of unknown > function

(so what do they do?) Flood the extracellular fluid and and cause apoptosis? Didn’t the swedish news release say something to that effect for the discovered P gene? > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > The electroneutral cotransport of potassium and chloride is mediated > by potassium-chloride transporters, which are encoded by members of > the gene family of cation-chloride cotransporters > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&…

Did the Swedes find what one of the two proteins does, is related to P? > Whoops can’t recall this one. It’s here now. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&…

OK? What? If LPS/? causes back pressure in the kidneys it raises NO levels and that may account for FAS in the wrong levels of the skin? I know its a stretch. Cytoprotective effects of nitrates in a cellular model of hydronephrosis. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… So the basket case of p maladies could be explained partially by the effects of inflammation working to protect organs (kidneys) with the use of NO (nitric oxide). A closer look at the mechanical pathways involved may explain more. Or explain why this hypothesis doesn’t work. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> randall…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >I wonder what this one means. In relationship to the other seven > >P genes, anyway. > >You suppose those scientist will go on finding p genes forever? > The article says expression was increased, not that it was unique to > psoriasis. > Maybe six or so of these genes is just involved in the inflammatory > process rather than being directly causative. > J. > Hi, > I couldn’t wait or i may have forgotten this. > I found 1600 hits on gene transcriptions & fatty acids. > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… > Selective cooperation between fatty acid binding proteins and > peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors in regulating > transcription > Now we are back to the PPAR thread! Holy cow, how much > CoQ10 is in that meat?

OK! Here is a conclusion from a link posted to the PPAR gene thread. [...] The discovery of PPARs and identification of fatty acids and their derivatives as ligands, a few years ago, have uncovered an unexpected and fascinating regulatory mode of action of lipids as direct modulators of gene expression. Since then, the excitement has not weakened while compelling evidence has accumulated that PPAR and PPAR act at crucial nodes of the regulatory network that achieve energy homeostasis in the organism. More specifically, an emerging picture is that of a dual and complementary role of PPAR and – isotypes in the regulation of the catabolic and anabolic aspects of lipid metabolism, respectively. Stimulating findings also include the discovery that lipid mediators, such as some eicosanoids (leukotrienes and prostaglandins), are natural PPAR ligands, opening new perspectives for investigating possible novel determinants of energy balance, as well as novel functions for PPARs, with links to glucose homeostasis, cell cycle control, inflammation, and immune response. As a corollary, PPARs are promising targets for therapeutic intervention, through the development of agonists but also antagonists, in disorders such as obesity and diabetes, atherosclerosis, chronic inflammatory diseases, and tumorigenesis. However, one characteristic of the PPARs is that their activation can occur through a broad spectrum of ligands with rather low affinity. This implies that particular care must be taken when assessing the PPAR dependence of a given signaling pathway. More interestingly, some signals might be transduced by different ways, as exemplified by the subtle interplay between the membrane and nuclear receptors, introducing new levels of complexity in PPAR biology as determinants of the fine tuning of interconnected metabolic processes. The above being the conclusion from this 1999 abstract on PPAR’s http://edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/20/5/649 The best way to update yourself from 99 to the present is simply enter PPAR into the pubmed site and read em chronologically to the present. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> randall

Response:

>>Who KNEW that the seb derms had the same genes but not >the two proteins that make defensins and cathelcidins? >Wait a minute, if they had 100% the same genes, we *presume* we would >all have the same proteins.

… plus or minus exogenous factors, eg exposure to disease. J.

Response:

> Selective cooperation between fatty acid binding proteins and > peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors in regulating > transcription > Now we are back to the PPAR thread! Holy cow, how much > CoQ10 is in that meat? > randall

LOL ! Want to resurrect the diabetes-insulin-ppar-psoriasis blowtorch wars ?! Seriously, this stuff is starting to show more links than ever. IMO.

Response:

> >I hope anyway. I loved to eat a few things with impunity. > I prefer Grey Poupon.

Does it have chinese mustard in it? >Who KNEW that the seb derms had the same genes but not >the two proteins that make defensins and cathelcidins? > Wait a minute, if they had 100% the same genes, we *presume* we would > all have the same proteins.

We’ve left the seb vs P thread, so i’ll grab up some info from them to refresh the conversation. >And as evetsm has said concerning the similarities and differences we >all share the small differences are huge yet all clues.

Yep. (J said) >We, you and i, do differ on omega6/egg yolks/borage oil/EPO? >Do we NOT? (randall said)

Dunno. (J said) Maybe the benefits I see from eggs and EPO are all benefits to secondary problems that I have and you don’t, even while they actually aggravate the underlying primary psoriasis. (J said) J. Post number 11 in this thread is a PPAR and fatty acid thing for regulating gene transcription. And the above foods all have fatty acids in them. LA, LNA, EFA’s and more then i can list. N-3’s and N-6’s needing close attention plus the interaction of refined sugars with Tnf and iNOS. Here is the abstract on the two proteins, Background The innate immune system of human skin contains antimicrobial peptides known as cathelicidins (LL-37) and -defensins. In normal skin these peptides are negligible, but they accumulate in skin affected by inflammatory diseases such as psoriasis. We compared the levels of expression of LL-37 and human -defensin 2 (HBD-2) in inflamed skin from patients with atopic dermatitis and from those with psoriasis. Methods The expression of LL-37 and HBD-2 protein in skin-biopsy specimens from patients with psoriasis, patients with atopic dermatitis, and normal subjects was determined by immunohistochemical analysis. The amount of antimicrobial peptides in extracts of skin samples was also analyzed by immunodot blot analysis (for LL-37) and Western blot analysis (for HBD-2). Quantitative, real-time reverse-transcriptase

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello I wonder if anyone can help, > I first had psoriasis in my teens which started out as pustules which wept, > that appeared almost overnight.  I was prescribed an anti-histamine which > did not help and after a long time the psoriasis was diagnosed.  I kept this > at bay with dovonex and one time PUVA treatment.  My problem now is that it > has come back with a vengeance 10 years later.  The patches start as small > dots which grow and develop scaling.  Any type of trauma a nick or a scratch > will a week later be a new patch.  A month ago I was fairly clear and now > the small ‘dots’ are all over.  I get pinspot bleeding and the scales are > very raised and red in the established areas.  The itching is driving me mad > and I am worried about the hundreds of tiny dots. > I was once told I have a form of psoriasis that is more commonly seen in > children, could this be true ? > I see a dermatologist in a months time.  Any advice would be welcome. > thanks > Michelle

Check out http://www.psoriasis.org/ Take a look at the pictures and info there. They are by far the best source available. — Chuck "If you once forfeit the confidence of your fellow citizens, you can never regain it. It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time." Abraham Lincoln

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello I wonder if anyone can help, > I first had psoriasis in my teens which started out as pustules which wept, > that appeared almost overnight.  I was prescribed an anti-histamine which > did not help and after a long time the psoriasis was diagnosed.  I kept this > at bay with dovonex and one time PUVA treatment.  My problem now is that it > has come back with a vengeance 10 years later.  The patches start as small > dots which grow and develop scaling.  Any type of trauma a nick or a scratch > will a week later be a new patch.  A month ago I was fairly clear and now > the small ‘dots’ are all over.  I get pinspot bleeding and the scales are > very raised and red in the established areas.  The itching is driving me mad > and I am worried about the hundreds of tiny dots. > I was once told I have a form of psoriasis that is more commonly seen in > children, could this be true ? > I see a dermatologist in a months time.  Any advice would be welcome.

I’m sure someone with more knowledge will answer your questions better than I can.  But I do know there are different types of P.  Pustular is one. Then there is inverse, that often appears in the groin, armpits and other places that tend to be moist.  It is red, but usually no plaques.  There is another type called Guttate that has little drop-like spots.  I think this is the one that is more common in kids.  I’m sure there are others that I’ve missed. There is something called Koebners response.  If you have this, any trauma to the area can cause P to appear there. Don’t know what to tell you about the itching.  I guess I’m lucky in that the areas where I have P are very small.  And since I have other skin problems that are more bothersome than the P, I don’t pay it much mind.  I make sure to use a moisturizing wash when I shower, and apply more moisturizer afterwards.  I’ve found that plain shea butter works very well for me.  Cocoa butter works pretty well for me too.  I keep a stick of it in my purse and will apply it if any itching or bleeding starts up while I’m out. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ Julie Bove, posting from new account

Response:

Hello I wonder if anyone can help, I first had psoriasis in my teens which started out as pustules which wept, that appeared almost overnight.  I was prescribed an anti-histamine which did not help and after a long time the psoriasis was diagnosed.  I kept this at bay with dovonex and one time PUVA treatment.  My problem now is that it has come back with a vengeance 10 years later.  The patches start as small dots which grow and develop scaling.  Any type of trauma a nick or a scratch will a week later be a new patch.  A month ago I was fairly clear and now the small ‘dots’ are all over.  I get pinspot bleeding and the scales are very raised and red in the established areas.  The itching is driving me mad and I am worried about the hundreds of tiny dots. I was once told I have a form of psoriasis that is more commonly seen in children, could this be true ? I see a dermatologist in a months time.  Any advice would be welcome. thanks Michelle

Response:

Question:

>      One thing psoriasis teaches you is that you need to have patience. >Maybe that is what I am meant to learn in this life?

Also how to spell stuff like "erythromycin" and what all these biotech terms are that Randall throws our way.  Education is such a pain … J.

Response:

I tend to just copy and paste all the hard words!  I don’t think that I have learnt that much patience!

>      One thing psoriasis teaches you is that you need to have patience. >Maybe that is what I am meant to learn in this life? > Also how to spell stuff like "erythromycin" and what all these biotech > terms are that Randall throws our way.  Education is such a pain … > > J.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I have finished the week’s worth of erythromycin that the doctor prescribed and have started to apply the Alphosyll HC cream sparing twice a day. I do feel that my psoriasis is gradually calming down. The large patches no longer feel hot to the touch and no longer itch and are smooth with little flaking. This is a slow and sure way of getting rid of it but seems worth persevering with if you have two or three large patches as I do on my elbows and thigh. Another good thing about this cream is that it doesn’t smell and doesn’t stain. This seems to be a quite inexpensive method of treating psoriasis in cases like mine if you can tolerate coal tar. These are the UK details from http://bnf.vhn.net/bnf/documents/bnf.2352.html#BNFID_5961 (The trademarks probably won’t translate properly) Alphosyl HC

Question:

Thank you for your help.  I looked at some of the sites on P but was a bit overwhelmed.  There is so much information.  You referred to the UVB.  It has been so long I can not remember how we used it.  I think perhaps we just got a UV bulb and put it in a  lamp that would hang directly over the floor.  We would just get him to lay under it for 10-15 min on each side.  Something like that.  Is that the right thing to do?  How many times a day should he do it?   It seems like there was a salve we put on him but it was very messy.  Thanks for your response. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi, there’s a link in my .sig to the group FAQ, which is itself >basically a set of links to other information sources such as you are >looking for. >Strep is a pretty common trigger of a type of psoriasis called guttate >because it comes out in a bunch of not very scaly red droplets. Sounds >like that’s what he’s got and FWIW in that case some of the new things >people are posting about, like Amevive, are not appropriate for that >form. >One of the first things to do to treat it is to try to get rid of the >strep infection that is triggering the outbreak. After that, there has >been a lot of progress in treatments in the 20 years since, but in a >lot of cases they aren’t appropriate unless the case is particularly >severe because of side effect risks. UVB is still a good place to >start, because it can be very effective for that kind and is also very >safe. After that, there are a few different categories of topicals to >use singly or in combination with UVB/each other. These include >different strengths of cortico-steroids, which are probably what he >was given as a kid. Fairly safe to use, but some side effect risks >with high strength long term continual use. Dovonex, a vitamin D >analogue that is slower to work but has less side effect risks. >Steroids and dovonex together are often more effective than either >alone.  Anthralin, another topical that can stain and irritate but is >otherwise very safe and can be quite effective. And on. >Seriously, what you should do is read a bit from some of the places >linked to in the FAQ, like the NPF, to get a bit of basic info about >what your options are, then make an appointment with a good derm to >get treatment that will get it under control ASAP.. >Kim >My son had psoriasis as a child.  It only showed up on two occassions >when he had strep throat at ages 7 and 14.  In both cases we used some >kind of ointment and had him sit under an ultraviolet lamp.  It seemed >like it went away in a month or so.   As a 30 year old adult he >occassionally has minimal shows of the condition that do not last >long.  Recently he had a sore throat and it poped out all over him. >What is the state of the art of treatment for psoriasis now?  Any >recommendations for treatment or advice about how to proceed will be >appreciated.  Also, if there are any good web sites on this, please >let me know.   Thanks >The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at >              http://www.psoriasisfaq.com >but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a >           newsgroup near you…

Response:

Hi, there’s a link in my .sig to the group FAQ, which is itself basically a set of links to other information sources such as you are looking for. Strep is a pretty common trigger of a type of psoriasis called guttate because it comes out in a bunch of not very scaly red droplets. Sounds like that’s what he’s got and FWIW in that case some of the new things people are posting about, like Amevive, are not appropriate for that form. One of the first things to do to treat it is to try to get rid of the strep infection that is triggering the outbreak. After that, there has been a lot of progress in treatments in the 20 years since, but in a lot of cases they aren’t appropriate unless the case is particularly severe because of side effect risks. UVB is still a good place to start, because it can be very effective for that kind and is also very safe. After that, there are a few different categories of topicals to use singly or in combination with UVB/each other. These include different strengths of cortico-steroids, which are probably what he was given as a kid. Fairly safe to use, but some side effect risks with high strength long term continual use. Dovonex, a vitamin D analogue that is slower to work but has less side effect risks. Steroids and dovonex together are often more effective than either alone.  Anthralin, another topical that can stain and irritate but is otherwise very safe and can be quite effective. And on. Seriously, what you should do is read a bit from some of the places linked to in the FAQ, like the NPF, to get a bit of basic info about what your options are, then make an appointment with a good derm to get treatment that will get it under control ASAP.. Kim >My son had psoriasis as a child.  It only showed up on two occassions >when he had strep throat at ages 7 and 14.  In both cases we used some >kind of ointment and had him sit under an ultraviolet lamp.  It seemed >like it went away in a month or so.   As a 30 year old adult he >occassionally has minimal shows of the condition that do not last >long.  Recently he had a sore throat and it poped out all over him. >What is the state of the art of treatment for psoriasis now?  Any >recommendations for treatment or advice about how to proceed will be >appreciated.  Also, if there are any good web sites on this, please >let me know.   Thanks

The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at               http://www.psoriasisfaq.com but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a            newsgroup near you…

Response:

> My son had psoriasis as a child.  It only showed up on two occassions > when he had strep throat at ages 7 and 14.  In both cases we used some > kind of ointment and had him sit under an ultraviolet lamp.  It seemed > like it went away in a month or so.   As a 30 year old adult he > occassionally has minimal shows of the condition that do not last > long.  Recently he had a sore throat and it poped out all over him. > What is the state of the art of treatment for psoriasis now?  Any > recommendations for treatment or advice about how to proceed will be > appreciated.  Also, if there are any good web sites on this, please > let me know.   Thanks

Hi, http://www.yourmedicalsource.com/library/psoriasis/PSO_treatment.html Or www.psoriasis.org And/or, he can try a diet like Terrys or relaxation or ssri’s etc. Does he know how to google? You can extract any info out of this psoriasis group with a few choice keywords. Use www.deja.com and enter psorisis into the search box and then click the longer of the two options. (alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis) Then click the search this group only option and enter whatever keywords into the search box. Say you want to know what terrys diet is. Enter diet terry. Have a haPPy day. randall

Response:

My son had psoriasis as a child.  It only showed up on two occassions when he had strep throat at ages 7 and 14.  In both cases we used some kind of ointment and had him sit under an ultraviolet lamp.  It seemed like it went away in a month or so.   As a 30 year old adult he occassionally has minimal shows of the condition that do not last long.  Recently he had a sore throat and it poped out all over him. What is the state of the art of treatment for psoriasis now?  Any recommendations for treatment or advice about how to proceed will be appreciated.  Also, if there are any good web sites on this, please let me know.   Thanks

Response:

Question:

>But was it then treatable (manageable), and/or cured to your >satisfaction? >Ralph

Ralph, I don’t know if you haven’t read this yet, but psoriasis is not curable.  It may go into remission, or may be controlled adequately by medication or UVB radiation or any of a number of other variations, but it doesn’t go away completely. Happily in my case the psoriasis of my skin has never been a major disability. At its worst, it was maybe 60 – 70% coverage, but ever since starting treatment for my related psoriatic arthritis (PA), it has been below about 10% coverage and currently is below 5% coverage.  It is something I can easily put out of my mind completely. I do have psoriatic arthritis though, which in my case is the more serious side of the disease.  However, most people with psoriasis do not get the related arthritis, so do not be too concerned about it.  If your mom should begin to get arthritis symptoms, then she may wish to consult a rheumatologist to rule out psoriatic arthritis. LadyAndy Chat live with us at >http://tinyurl.com/4ust < (this is at iVillageHealth – my chats are on Sun evenings at 10 ET) Joint Replacement Board at http://boards.ivillagehealth.com/cgi-bin/boards/bhivhjointreplace

Response:

>Well, I agree, if there is no solution as yet, in her seeing four >dermatologists, she should see another until this is relieved, >if not cured, but one can’t go on forever in that process can they?

Yes, one can.  But… >I mean it would be quite discouraging for me to continue to >do that.

…this makes sense, too. >Thats why it makes sense to me to have a biopsy, (if she >hasn’t, I don’t know yet), and look to other possible diseases >or "skin conditions," as a possible source of her condition.

A biopsy might rule _out_ psoriasis, or it might help ID the condition as psoriasis, but it’s not going to limit the condition to just a single disease. Any information you can gather might help a doctor make a good diagnosis, but you’ll have to find a doctor who’s willing to listen to your opinions. >Tell me, are all forms of "P" considered to be "infections?"

NO forms of psoriasis are considered to be infections.  None.  Every form of psoriasis might be _triggered_ by an infection (guttate in particular often follows a bout of strep throat), but once psoriasis starts, it can be self-sustaining, and remain long after a triggering infection has been eliminated by the immune system with or without the help of drugs.  But there are lots of other possible triggers besides infection, too. >Well, that could be presumably arrogant and shortsighted if in fact >there are so many different kinds of P, some caused by infection, >some caused by emotional distress, and some caused by other >things, wouldn’t you say?

Well, not really.  Psoriasis may be affected by lots of things (stress in many people, but not in others; diet in some, but not in others; etc.), but that doesn’t mean that these different people necessarily have different diseases, or even different ‘forms’ of the same disease, or even the same disease caused by different things.  80-something percent of people with psoriasis get good results from using potent topical steroids, but that doesn’t mean that the other 20% or so have a different kind of psoriasis, it just means that the drug didn’t work, for any number of reasons. As for the "caused by" phrases, above, we can be pretty darned sure that psoriasis symptoms are caused by an inappropriate immune system response within the skin, in 100% of cases.  What causes that inappropriate response can often be traced to genetics, but the jury is still out on the question of which genes and why.  And it may not be the same set of genes in all cases, but the mechanisms for creating the symptoms in the skin itself are remarkably similar. The classic signs of psoriasis, which I outlined for you, will "catch" a large number of psoriasis patients without need of a biopsy – _if_ the diagnosing doctor knows to look for them.  The derm who said that anyone who relies on a biopsy to diagnose psoriasis doesn’t know psoriasis, was simply saying that much.  If a doctor’s first impulse is to do an invasive procedure (even if only slightly invasive, like a punch biopsy of skin), he/she would actually be a better doctor to refer the patient to someone more knowledgable. >It is certainly well defined, but not by inflamation as much as, (in >the case of her legs anyway), it is by color.  I take inflamation to >mean a rise in elevation of the skin in transition from >the other surrounding skin.

No.  For the purposes of our discussion here, inflammation equals redness.  Red as in "on fire," or "inflamed." If by "elevation" you mean "thickness," that’s covered by the "raised skin" part of the diagnostic checklist. >These are not.

Not which?  Dry or moist?  Sorry, I sometimes have pronoun troubles.  :) >This is the case in some of her smaller patches, but not the large >ones, as those on her legs.  I’m wondering though if thats because >there is a thin-ness of skin and lack of flesh in that area, being near >the "schin" (sp) bone, and by repeated scarring.

Shin skin is pretty thin skin, in general, but my shin plaques, when they’ve occured, have always been raised compared to the surrounding skin. I take it you haven’t been witness to Auspitz’ Sign in your mother’s condition? >Thats encouraging.  I want to ad something here, that may be helpful >for some others, and possibley relates to this. [snip] >I finally went to her primary care physician with her, and described my >mother’s dislike for that heart doctor "for her."  She hadn’t the courage >herself.

[snip] First off, I’m glad that part of the story has a happy ending.  Secondly, it shouldn’t take any more courage to "fire" one of your doctors and find another than it does to "fire" the guy who rips you off when working on your car, and find another auto mechanic.  By paying the doctor, your mother was hiring that doctor to do a job for her.  If she wasn’t satisfied with the service, she should say so, and/or hire someone else.  She shouldn’t act as if the doctor was doing her a _favor_ by seeing her. And I say it _shouldn’t_ take courage to do this, but I’m well aware that some people see doctors as somehow god-like (and some doctors see themselves this way, too), which is why I didn’t say that it _doesn’t_ take courage to do it. In this day-and-age, though, when many people have many doctors available to them within an acceptable distance, your mother probably needs to realize that it’s _her_ health, and she’s got choices.  It’s been a long time since most towns had just the one doctor, and you didn’t want to annoy him by saying anything bad about him because the next-closest doctor was half a day away by ox-cart. This is, of course, true for just about any medical condition, not just heart problems or psoriasis. Hope all this helps. – Dave W. http://psorsite.com/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Did you have a biopsy to determine that you in fact have psoriasis? > I am finding it interesting in my reading tonight to see that > sometimes this is difficult to diagnose, and sometimes requires this > to get an accurate diagnosis. > I’ve read alot about scales having a silvery look.  My mothers scales > aren’t silvery, but I’ve not seen it mentioned that they can also be > yellowish.  Yellowish is definately not silvery is it? > Could it be some other disease like tinea versicolor, a fungal > infection of the skin?  Instead of "P" ? > I don’t know. I do know where you can find an image. > Thanks > Ralph > Why don’t you look at some pictures (google images) and > let us know what you think.

http://images.google.com/images?q=psoriasis&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&ta b=wi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There are over 4500 images to browse. You may even find > a name to attach to your moms rash. And it may not > fall under the p umbrella. I can think of enough names to > keep you busy for weeks. You may even find something > that looks silvery. > Or you could take davew’s advice and find a few > doctors to confirm the actual condition. > Whether you go home with some gooP for it is > uP to you. > So, lets say you have a name for it and its P. > What do you really know now? > A heck of a lot more then yesterday, for sure. > What do you and her do then? How much time do you > want to expend on the newsgroup cure for it? > Is she really covered or just some mild areas? > I did notice one post on selsun blue with robin > in another thread. Maybe i should have read the > whole thread to make a real diagnosis. > Then i could have told you to get her into > a garage and up on the rack. You only get one > mom and you don’t want to blow it, now do you? > randall… time to call mom and tell her i love  her

Thank you, I can tell you that this is definately not it: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.antisense.com.au/images/sta tic/Psoriasis.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.antisense.com.au/current_atl110 1_whatis.asp&h=152&w=260&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpsoriasis%26svnum%3D10%26h l%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN You gave me an idea.  I have a fairly decent digital camera that will take a photograph clearly inside 18" so I will get a picture of my mothers condition, (legs), if she doesn’t mind, and post it to alt.binaries.misc or some such group. Thanks, Ralph

Response:

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Excellent clinical definition, DaveW.  Describes my psoriatic plaque lesions to > a "t".  Of course it doesn’t take into account the other forms of psoriasis. > Like you said, best choice is a dermatologist who has an interest in and sees a > lot of psoriasis in his or her practice. > As to the original question, my psoriasis was never biopsied; I guess mine is > typical enough never to have been in question. > LadyAndy > Chat live with us at >http://tinyurl.com/4ust < (this is at iVillageHealth – my > chats are on Sun evenings at 10 ET) > Joint Replacement Board at > http://boards.ivillagehealth.com/cgi-bin/boards/bhivhjointreplace

But was it then treatable (manageable), and/or cured to your satisfaction? Ralph

Response:

Excellent clinical definition, DaveW.  Describes my psoriatic plaque lesions to a "t".  Of course it doesn’t take into account the other forms of psoriasis. Like you said, best choice is a dermatologist who has an interest in and sees a lot of psoriasis in his or her practice. As to the original question, my psoriasis was never biopsied; I guess mine is typical enough never to have been in question. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Be that as it may, from memory (from a non-medically trained person, too), >here >are a bunch of bits of psoriasis diagnosis: >- Well-defined inflammation.  If the redness "fades" into the normal, >surrounding skin color, it probably isn’t psoriasis.  Psoriasis patches >usually >have very definite "lines" between inflamed skin and normal skin. >- Dry.  Undamaged psoriasis plaques don’t ooze, and they aren’t "moist." >- Raised.  Psoriasis patches are usually "taller" than normal, surrounding >skin, even when they don’t have scale built up on top of them. >- Auspitz Sign.  Because of the changes to the underlying dermis in a >psoriasis >plaque, if you remove a scale which isn’t already "loose," you’ll see lots of >pin-point bleeding.  Lots of little tiny dots of blood will appear where the >scale was well-attached to the dermis.

LadyAndy Chat live with us at >http://tinyurl.com/4ust < (this is at iVillageHealth – my chats are on Sun evenings at 10 ET) Joint Replacement Board at http://boards.ivillagehealth.com/cgi-bin/boards/bhivhjointreplace

Response:

> Did you have a biopsy to determine that you in fact have psoriasis? > I am finding it interesting in my reading tonight to see that > sometimes this is difficult to diagnose, and sometimes requires this > to get an accurate diagnosis. > I’ve read alot about scales having a silvery look.  My mothers scales > aren’t silvery, but I’ve not seen it mentioned that they can also be > yellowish.  Yellowish is definately not silvery is it? > Could it be some other disease like tinea versicolor, a fungal > infection of the skin?  Instead of "P" ?

I don’t know. I do know where you can find an image. > Thanks > Ralph

Why don’t you look at some pictures (google images) and let us know what you think. http://images.google.com/images?q=psoriasis&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&t… There are over 4500 images to browse. You may even find a name to attach to your moms rash. And it may not fall under the p umbrella. I can think of enough names to keep you busy for weeks. You may even find something that looks silvery. Or you could take davew’s advice and find a few doctors to confirm the actual condition. Whether you go home with some gooP for it is uP to you. So, lets say you have a name for it and its P. What do you really know now? A heck of a lot more then yesterday, for sure. What do you and her do then? How much time do you want to expend on the newsgroup cure for it? Is she really covered or just some mild areas? I did notice one post on selsun blue with robin in another thread. Maybe i should have read the whole thread to make a real diagnosis. Then i could have told you to get her into a garage and up on the rack. You only get one mom and you don’t want to blow it, now do you? randall… time to call mom and tell her i love  her

Response:

>Did you have a biopsy to determine that you in fact have psoriasis? [snip] >Could it be some other disease like tinea versicolor, a fungal >infection of the skin?  Instead of "P" ?

It could be a lot of things, Ralph.  What really needs to happen is that your mom go to as many dermatologists as necessary, to get as many diagnoses as necessary and/or as many treatments as necessary to get real help. A dermatologist who used to post here once said that any derm who relies on a biopsy to diagnose psoriasis doesn’t know psoriasis.  It’s difficult to diagnose without a bioposy if the person attempting diagnosis isn’t familiar with psoriasis.  And it’ll be even more difficult for people who aren’t medically trained (like most of us here). Be that as it may, from memory (from a non-medically trained person, too), here are a bunch of bits of psoriasis diagnosis: – Well-defined inflammation.  If the redness "fades" into the normal, surrounding skin color, it probably isn’t psoriasis.  Psoriasis patches usually have very definite "lines" between inflamed skin and normal skin. – Dry.  Undamaged psoriasis plaques don’t ooze, and they aren’t "moist." – Raised.  Psoriasis patches are usually "taller" than normal, surrounding skin, even when they don’t have scale built up on top of them. – Auspitz Sign.  Because of the changes to the underlying dermis in a psoriasis plaque, if you remove a scale which isn’t already "loose," you’ll see lots of pin-point bleeding.  Lots of little tiny dots of blood will appear where the scale was well-attached to the dermis. None of the above is a marker for "that’s absolutely psoriasis," however, as other skin conditions can have a "psoriaform" appearance.  There’s no shortage of case histories in the medical literature which basically say, "well, this person was being treated for psoriasis, but none of the normal stuff worked, and then he/she came to us, and we saw this symptom that had been overlooked, and that enabled us to make the diagnosis of [insert something other than psoriasis here], which, with proper treatment, was managed/healed/cured easily." If there’s one in your area, take your mom to the dermatology department of a teaching hospital.  From what I’ve been told, they find "borderline" cases where the diagnosis isn’t cut-and-dried to be interesting for the medical students, so it might be more likely that whatever is plauging her will be diagnosed correctly.  Hopefully. And conversely, it’s highly unlikely that "Internet diagnosis" is going to work wonders.  There’s a reason that doctors are legally obligated to actually _see_ their patients before diagnosing them with any particular disease.  And the photos on the Web tend to be of low quality – more than once have I thought I saw psoriasis in a photo online, only to find out by reading the text that I was _way_ off. – Dave W. http://psorsite.com/

Response:

>Did you have a biopsy to determine that you in fact have psoriasis? > [snip] >Could it be some other disease like tinea versicolor, a fungal >infection of the skin?  Instead of "P" ? > It could be a lot of things, Ralph.  What really needs to happen is that your > mom go to as many dermatologists as necessary, to get as many diagnoses as > necessary and/or as many treatments as necessary to get real help.

Well, I agree, if there is no solution as yet, in her seeing four dermatologists, she should see another until this is relieved, if not cured, but one can’t go on forever in that process can they?  I mean it would be quite discouraging for me to continue to do that.  Thats why it makes sense to me to have a biopsy, (if she hasn’t, I don’t know yet), and look to other possible diseases or "skin conditions," as a possible source of her condition. Tell me, are all forms of "P" considered to be "infections?" > A dermatologist who used to post here once said that any derm who relies on a > biopsy to diagnose psoriasis doesn’t know psoriasis.

Well, that could be presumably arrogant and shortsighted if in fact there are so many different kinds of P, some caused by infection, some caused by emotional distress, and some caused by other things, wouldn’t you say? > It’s difficult to > diagnose without a bioposy if the person attempting diagnosis isn’t familiar > with psoriasis.  And it’ll be even more difficult for people who aren’t > medically trained (like most of us here).

Yes, I might suppose so. > Be that as it may, from memory (from a non-medically trained person, too), here > are a bunch of bits of psoriasis diagnosis: > – Well-defined inflammation.  If the redness "fades" into the normal, > surrounding skin color, it probably isn’t psoriasis.  Psoriasis patches usually > have very definite "lines" between inflamed skin and normal skin.

It is certainly well defined, but not by inflamation as much as, (in the case of her legs anyway), it is by color.  I take inflamation to mean a rise in elevation of the skin in transition from the other surrounding skin. > – Dry.  Undamaged psoriasis plaques don’t ooze, and they aren’t

"moist." These are not. > – Raised.  Psoriasis patches are usually "taller" than normal, surrounding > skin, even when they don’t have scale built up on top of them.

This is the case in some of her smaller patches, but not the large ones, as those on her legs.  I’m wondering though if thats because there is a thin-ness of skin and lack of flesh in that area, being near the "schin" (sp) bone, and by repeated scarring. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> – Auspitz Sign.  Because of the changes to the underlying dermis in a psoriasis > plaque, if you remove a scale which isn’t already "loose," you’ll see lots of > pin-point bleeding.  Lots of little tiny dots of blood will appear where the > scale was well-attached to the dermis. > None of the above is a marker for "that’s absolutely psoriasis," however, as > other skin conditions can have a "psoriaform" appearance.  There’s no shortage > of case histories in the medical literature which basically say, "well, this > person was being treated for psoriasis, but none of the normal stuff worked, > and then he/she came to us, and we saw this symptom that had been overlooked, > and that enabled us to make the diagnosis of [insert something other than > psoriasis here], which, with proper treatment, was

managed/healed/cured > easily."

Thats encouraging.  I want to ad something here, that may be helpful for some others, and possibley relates to this.  My mother has also had an arythmic heart for years. For the past six years the steadily declining lack of oxygen to her heart incapacitated her gradually to the point to where walking a few yards, exhausted her.  She expressed to me a dislike of her heart doctor.  She claimed he would not talk to her, acted as if she were a thing, instead of a person.  Sort of as if she weren’t present.  My mother had inquired the possibility early on whether a pacemaker might help her condition and she was told repeatedly by this doctor that that was not an option for her.  I finally went to her primary care physician with her, and described my mother’s dislike for that heart doctor "for her."  She hadn’t the courage herself.  That doctor switched her to a doctor in her group of associates, and in less than 3 months time, after applying shock to the heart in a couple of success attempt to establish a rythm for the heart, which soon reverted, she indeed was fitted with a pacemaker and she is a new woman!  Able to excersize, do her housework, and socialize to the degree she was accoustomed. > If there’s one in your area, take your mom to the dermatology department of a > teaching hospital.  From what I’ve been told, they find "borderline" cases > where the diagnosis isn’t cut-and-dried to be interesting for the medical > students, so it might be more likely that whatever is plauging her will be > diagnosed correctly.  Hopefully.

That is a good idea. > And conversely, it’s highly unlikely that "Internet diagnosis" is going to work > wonders.  There’s a reason that doctors are legally obligated to actually _see_ > their patients before diagnosing them with any particular disease. And the > photos on the Web tend to be of low quality – more than once have I thought I > saw psoriasis in a photo online, only to find out by reading the text that I > was _way_ off. > – Dave W. > http://psorsite.com/

I understand.  Thank you for your post. Ralph

Response:

Did you have a biopsy to determine that you in fact have psoriasis? I am finding it interesting in my reading tonight to see that sometimes this is difficult to diagnose, and sometimes requires this to get an accurate diagnosis. I’ve read alot about scales having a silvery look.  My mothers scales aren’t silvery, but I’ve not seen it mentioned that they can also be yellowish.  Yellowish is definately not silvery is it? Could it be some other disease like tinea versicolor, a fungal infection of the skin?  Instead of "P" ? Thanks Ralph

Response:

Question:

>Dovovonex is it helping or not? I have a rash on my face now and scaly >flaky patches around on my lips which spread around my mouth?? Anyone >had this type of reaction to dovonex before??

There have been some reports that Dovonex (used elsewhere on the body) might encourage psoriasis to spread to the facial regions, sorry to say.  As Fran says, Dovonex should not be applied to the face, either. J.

Response:

no dovonex on your head……i loose hair   back my ears!  be worry! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Please DO NOT use dovonex on your face or ears.  It’s too strong. > Get the doctor who prescribed it to prescribe a mild cream. > I know you can’t afford a derm but that’s really the way to go. > Hi everyone, > Thank you to those of you who responded to my earlier post ‘Guttate > Psoriasis-any help please!’… As is said before this is my worst > outbreak yet ( I have had guttate for 6 years, i am now 24 ), it has > never lasted so long (going on 6 weeks now), it has never covered so > much of my body ( back, chest, breasts, upper thighs, shoulders, upper > arms, ears, top of my buttocks), and it has never been this > painful…guess pain isn’t the best word to describe but im sure those > of you suffering from P understand what i mean! So after seeing one > doctor who just prescribed me more hydrocortisone, and when that wasnt > working i posted here…Thank you again for some of your > recommendations! > So i went to see a different doctor last week tuesday who has now > prescribed me Dovonex, I have never used this ointment before. My > lower back and buttocks has pretty much cleared up on its own( which > had started before using the dovonex) but my chest and neck and ears > just seem to be stuck in guttate mode… > Dovovonex is it helping or not? I have a rash on my face now and scaly > flaky patches around on my lips which spread around my mouth?? Anyone > had this type of reaction to dovonex before?? I just seem to be > running in a viscious circle…keep trying to get in to see a derm but > noone wants to recomend me to one and i really cannot afford a private > one at the moment. Noone will even give me damn throat swab for a > strep test! I feel so down…I could cover it up before but now i have > the horrible rash on my face just seems to be neverending. > So just if anyone could let me know of any ill effects from using > dovonex that would be wonderful. Thanks everyone.

Response:

Please DO NOT use dovonex on your face or ears.  It’s too strong. Get the doctor who prescribed it to prescribe a mild cream. I know you can’t afford a derm but that’s really the way to go. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi everyone, > Thank you to those of you who responded to my earlier post ‘Guttate > Psoriasis-any help please!’… As is said before this is my worst > outbreak yet ( I have had guttate for 6 years, i am now 24 ), it has > never lasted so long (going on 6 weeks now), it has never covered so > much of my body ( back, chest, breasts, upper thighs, shoulders, upper > arms, ears, top of my buttocks), and it has never been this > painful…guess pain isn’t the best word to describe but im sure those > of you suffering from P understand what i mean! So after seeing one > doctor who just prescribed me more hydrocortisone, and when that wasnt > working i posted here…Thank you again for some of your > recommendations! > So i went to see a different doctor last week tuesday who has now > prescribed me Dovonex, I have never used this ointment before. My > lower back and buttocks has pretty much cleared up on its own( which > had started before using the dovonex) but my chest and neck and ears > just seem to be stuck in guttate mode… > Dovovonex is it helping or not? I have a rash on my face now and scaly > flaky patches around on my lips which spread around my mouth?? Anyone > had this type of reaction to dovonex before?? I just seem to be > running in a viscious circle…keep trying to get in to see a derm but > noone wants to recomend me to one and i really cannot afford a private > one at the moment. Noone will even give me damn throat swab for a > strep test! I feel so down…I could cover it up before but now i have > the horrible rash on my face just seems to be neverending. > So just if anyone could let me know of any ill effects from using > dovonex that would be wonderful. Thanks everyone.

Response:

Hi everyone, Thank you to those of you who responded to my earlier post ‘Guttate Psoriasis-any help please!’… As is said before this is my worst outbreak yet ( I have had guttate for 6 years, i am now 24 ), it has never lasted so long (going on 6 weeks now), it has never covered so much of my body ( back, chest, breasts, upper thighs, shoulders, upper arms, ears, top of my buttocks), and it has never been this painful…guess pain isn’t the best word to describe but im sure those of you suffering from P understand what i mean! So after seeing one doctor who just prescribed me more hydrocortisone, and when that wasnt working i posted here…Thank you again for some of your recommendations! So i went to see a different doctor last week tuesday who has now prescribed me Dovonex, I have never used this ointment before. My lower back and buttocks has pretty much cleared up on its own( which had started before using the dovonex) but my chest and neck and ears just seem to be stuck in guttate mode… Dovovonex is it helping or not? I have a rash on my face now and scaly flaky patches around on my lips which spread around my mouth?? Anyone had this type of reaction to dovonex before?? I just seem to be running in a viscious circle…keep trying to get in to see a derm but noone wants to recomend me to one and i really cannot afford a private one at the moment. Noone will even give me damn throat swab for a strep test! I feel so down…I could cover it up before but now i have the horrible rash on my face just seems to be neverending. So just if anyone could let me know of any ill effects from using dovonex that would be wonderful. Thanks everyone.

Response:

Question:

……but I didn’t do anything……. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You’ve got me there …. I didn’t realize I was posting in HTML…. How do > I fix it? > It seems you fixed it… this isn’t in html..

Response:

Your computer has a mind of it’s own…. muuhahaha

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ……but I didn’t do anything……. > > You’ve got me there …. I didn’t realize I was posting in HTML…. How do > > I fix it? > It seems you fixed it… this isn’t in html..

Response:

thx – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Fran, on Outlook Express, go to Tools>Options>Send and check the  boxes at > the bottom of the page where it says to send using plain text. By the way, > HTML is fine on some newsgroups. > Tom > You’ve got me there …. I didn’t realize I was posting in HTML…. How do > I fix it? > > It is considered very poor netiquette to post in HTML > > Post only in Plain Text > > > Actually, maybe not…..I went to hospital for 2 weeks a few years > > > back with severe gasto-intestinal problems.  Was on I.V. for 10 days. > > > P cleared up.  Result of no food intake and saline drip combined with > > > cortisone? > > >> > I got attacks of guttate p. if I was sick enough to have a fever. > > >> > That really sucks. > > >> > Fran > > >> When I had my appendix out mine cleared up…. I always assumee it > > >> was the > > >> anti-biotics…

Response:

This is for Tom….I didn’t post this – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > That is news to me Fran. I haven’t run into it, but then I only peruse a few of > them. On those that I do read it is considered poor manners because many people > cannot view them. > What are some of them where it is acceptable? > Fran, on Outlook Express, go to Tools>Options>Send and check the  boxes at > the bottom of the page where it says to send using plain text. By the way, > HTML is fine on some newsgroups. > Tom > > You’ve got me there …. I didn’t realize I was posting in HTML…. How do > > I fix it? > > > It is considered very poor netiquette to post in HTML > > > Post only in Plain Text > > > > Actually, maybe not…..I went to hospital for 2 weeks a few years > > > > back with severe gasto-intestinal problems.  Was on I.V. for 10 days. > > > > P cleared up.  Result of no food intake and saline drip combined with > > > > cortisone? > > > >> > I got attacks of guttate p. if I was sick enough to have a fever. > > > >> > That really sucks. > > > >> > Fran > > > >> When I had my appendix out mine cleared up…. I always assumee it > > > >> was the > > > >> anti-biotics…

Response:

Slugsie.dyns.org; news,toolfox,com are two that I use. Mr. Perry is correct in that this makes some messages inaccessible for some readers. But if the group ok’s HTML then lots of folks use it. Some groups even allow binary posts for photos, cartoons, etc. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> That is news to me Fran. I haven’t run into it, but then I only peruse a few of > them. On those that I do read it is considered poor manners because many people > cannot view them. > What are some of them where it is acceptable? > Fran, on Outlook Express, go to Tools>Options>Send and check the  boxes at > the bottom of the page where it says to send using plain text. By the way, > HTML is fine on some newsgroups. > Tom > > You’ve got me there …. I didn’t realize I was posting in HTML…. How do > > I fix it? > > > It is considered very poor netiquette to post in HTML > > > Post only in Plain Text > > > > Actually, maybe not…..I went to hospital for 2 weeks a few years > > > > back with severe gasto-intestinal problems.  Was on I.V. for 10 days. > > > > P cleared up.  Result of no food intake and saline drip combined with > > > > cortisone? > > > >> > I got attacks of guttate p. if I was sick enough to have a fever. > > > >> > That really sucks. > > > >> > Fran > > > >> When I had my appendix out mine cleared up…. I always assumee it > > > >> was the > > > >> anti-biotics…

Response:

That is news to me Fran. I haven’t run into it, but then I only peruse a few of them. On those that I do read it is considered poor manners because many people cannot view them. What are some of them where it is acceptable? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Fran, on Outlook Express, go to Tools>Options>Send and check the  boxes at > the bottom of the page where it says to send using plain text. By the way, > HTML is fine on some newsgroups. > Tom > You’ve got me there …. I didn’t realize I was posting in HTML…. How do > I fix it? > > It is considered very poor netiquette to post in HTML > > Post only in Plain Text > > > Actually, maybe not…..I went to hospital for 2 weeks a few years > > > back with severe gasto-intestinal problems.  Was on I.V. for 10 days. > > > P cleared up.  Result of no food intake and saline drip combined with > > > cortisone? > > >> > I got attacks of guttate p. if I was sick enough to have a fever. > > >> > That really sucks. > > >> > Fran > > >> When I had my appendix out mine cleared up…. I always assumee it > > >> was the > > >> anti-biotics…

Response:

> It is considered very poor netiquette to post in HTML > Post only in Plain Text

Sorry if I continued it…

Response:

> You’ve got me there …. I didn’t realize I was posting in HTML…. How do > I fix it?

It seems you fixed it… this isn’t in html..

Response:

Fran, on Outlook Express, go to Tools>Options>Send and check the  boxes at the bottom of the page where it says to send using plain text. By the way, HTML is fine on some newsgroups. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You’ve got me there …. I didn’t realize I was posting in HTML…. How do > I fix it? > It is considered very poor netiquette to post in HTML > Post only in Plain Text > > Actually, maybe not…..I went to hospital for 2 weeks a few years > > back with severe gasto-intestinal problems.  Was on I.V. for 10 days. > > P cleared up.  Result of no food intake and saline drip combined with > > cortisone? > >> > I got attacks of guttate p. if I was sick enough to have a fever. > >> > That really sucks. > >> > Fran > >> When I had my appendix out mine cleared up…. I always assumee it > >> was the > >> anti-biotics…

Response:

Check your preferences on outgoing messages. I happen to use Netscape and I have it set to ask me before sending. I am not sure how to do it in Outlook Express, but I am sure if you can’t find it someone will be happy to tell you how it is done. Was there a difference when you sent this reply? It is in plain text, as it should be. Of course, that may be only because you clicked on the reply button when you wrote it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You’ve got me there …. I didn’t realize I was posting in HTML…. How do > I fix it? > It is considered very poor netiquette to post in HTML > Post only in Plain Text > > Actually, maybe not…..I went to hospital for 2 weeks a few years > > back with severe gasto-intestinal problems.  Was on I.V. for 10 days. > > P cleared up.  Result of no food intake and saline drip combined with > > cortisone? > >> > I got attacks of guttate p. if I was sick enough to have a fever. > >> > That really sucks. > >> > Fran > >> When I had my appendix out mine cleared up…. I always assumee it > >> was the > >> anti-biotics…

Response:

I got attacks of guttate p. if I was sick enough to have a fever. That really sucks. Fran – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Hi all, > > Just wondered if anyone else has noticed a connection between P and > > Tonsils…? > I have no idea about that since I had mine out when I was five years old. > Even > though I now know that I already had psoriasis it was not properly > diagnosed > until I was past fifty years of age. > A friend of mine that has psoriasis had a terrible outbreak right after > his > daughter had the Chicken Pox. His doctor said there was a very definite > connection between the two. > Sincec P has something to do with th immune system….and getting sick > causes the immune system to kick into high gear…one coud infer P. would > get worse when sick….

Response:

> I got attacks of guttate p. if I was sick enough to have a fever. > That really sucks. > Fran

When I had my appendix out mine cleared up…. I always assumee it was the anti-biotics…

Response:

Actually, maybe not…..I went to hospital for 2 weeks a few years back with severe gasto-intestinal problems.  Was on I.V. for 10 days.  P cleared up. Result of no food intake and saline drip combined with cortisone? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I got attacks of guttate p. if I was sick enough to have a fever. > That really sucks. > Fran > When I had my appendix out mine cleared up…. I always assumee it was the > anti-biotics…

Response:

It is considered very poor netiquette to post in HTML Post only in Plain Text – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Actually, maybe not…..I went to hospital for 2 weeks a few years > back with severe gasto-intestinal problems.  Was on I.V. for 10 days. > P cleared up.  Result of no food intake and saline drip combined with > cortisone? > > I got attacks of guttate p. if I was sick enough to have a fever. > > That really sucks. > > Fran > When I had my appendix out mine cleared up…. I always assumee it > was the > anti-biotics…

Response:

You’ve got me there …. I didn’t realize I was posting in HTML…. How do I fix it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It is considered very poor netiquette to post in HTML > Post only in Plain Text > Actually, maybe not…..I went to hospital for 2 weeks a few years > back with severe gasto-intestinal problems.  Was on I.V. for 10 days. > P cleared up.  Result of no food intake and saline drip combined with > cortisone? >> > I got attacks of guttate p. if I was sick enough to have a fever. >> > That really sucks. >> > Fran >> When I had my appendix out mine cleared up…. I always assumee it >> was the >> anti-biotics…

Response:

> Hi all, > Just wondered if anyone else has noticed a connection between P and > Tonsils…?

I have no idea about that since I had mine out when I was five years old. Even though I now know that I already had psoriasis it was not properly diagnosed until I was past fifty years of age. A friend of mine that has psoriasis had a terrible outbreak right after his daughter had the Chicken Pox. His doctor said there was a very definite connection between the two.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, > Just wondered if anyone else has noticed a connection between P and > Tonsils…? > I have no idea about that since I had mine out when I was five years old. Even > though I now know that I already had psoriasis it was not properly diagnosed > until I was past fifty years of age. > A friend of mine that has psoriasis had a terrible outbreak right after his > daughter had the Chicken Pox. His doctor said there was a very definite > connection between the two.

Sincec P has something to do with th immune system….and getting sick causes the immune system to kick into high gear…one coud infer P. would get worse when sick….

Response:

> Hi all, > Just wondered if anyone else has noticed a connection between P and > Tonsils…?

Seems to work for some of us and not others… my derm suggested removal is more useful for certain types of p (pustular and guttate) than it is for others.  My personal observation is that it seems to have a different effect on different areas. I had my tonsils out approximately five years ago, and after a few minor flares in the first couple of years, my hands are now completely clear and have their proper color back (I had pp on them).  However, my feet showed only minor improvement.  Go figure. Janet

Response:

I had my tonsils removed 23 years ago and still have bad P.  In fact, I didn’t have P before I had them removed.  I ,too,flare considerably when I get a cold.  There is definitely a link between tonsils and P in my opinion.  But, in my case, I wonder if I should have kept them?!  Streppococcus bacteria may be the irritant factor….  Take Care,  Dave

Response:

Short answer is sometimes. There’s a well known link between infections -particularly strep- as a trigger, particularly for guttate psoriasis and particularly for childhood onset. Tonsilitis means yours were infected, so they may very well have been harboring something that was triggering your P. OTOH studies on removing tonsils to control P have had mixed results, with one Japanese study http://pinch.com/skinny?medline=11766391 giving results that are about what my impression is from what I’ve seen – maybe a bit better than I expected. I had my tonsils out at 5 years old and didn’t start to show P symptoms until a few years after, so no link personally but there is certainly anecdotal evidence of cases like yours. Glad to hear you’ve seen so much improvement. BTW, you really should stop using steroids on your face if you can, and if you’ve been using them fairly continually -even in relatively small amounts- that’s not a great idea either, no matter where you’ve used them, because of side effect risks. Kim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi all, >Just wondered if anyone else has noticed a connection between P and >Tonsils…? >Anyway, after a month or two, 99% of my P has gone, and has stayed gone.  I >still get red patches on my forehead and face, which is probably down to >continued use of Steroid cream, and I can’t seem to throw that, and I still >have about 2 small (1cm) bits on a leg.  But otherwise – gone. >I’m interested in finding out links between P and other stuff, so have any >of you suffered from bad tonsils – symptoms can be regular sore throats >and/or bad breath (the pits collect bits of erm.. stuff – yuk I know). >Cheers all, and best of luck with fighting the curse ! >Mark. >PS. Now my P has (almost) gone, the Keloid scars I get just show up more – >typical !

The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at               http://www.psoriasisfaq.com but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a            newsgroup near you…

Response:

Hi all, Just wondered if anyone else has noticed a connection between P and Tonsils…? I’ve had P for last 15 years (since age 16), and bummer that it is, I’ve got used to it.  I have always noticed a flare up when I get a cold, or ill, or just have to take pain killers ie. my imune system is working overtime. Last 3 or 4 years I started to get colds/sore throats every month or two, which of course, didn’t help the P.  I also noticed that my tonsils were deeply pitted (yuk), and generally more un-hygenic than I would have liked.. My GP informed me that I was getting tonsilitis (sp?), and so almost a year ago, I had them taken out.  Not exactly comfortable! Anyway, after a month or two, 99% of my P has gone, and has stayed gone.  I still get red patches on my forehead and face, which is probably down to continued use of Steroid cream, and I can’t seem to throw that, and I still have about 2 small (1cm) bits on a leg.  But otherwise – gone. I’m interested in finding out links between P and other stuff, so have any of you suffered from bad tonsils – symptoms can be regular sore throats and/or bad breath (the pits collect bits of erm.. stuff – yuk I know). Cheers all, and best of luck with fighting the curse ! Mark. PS. Now my P has (almost) gone, the Keloid scars I get just show up more – typical !

Response:

Question:

>My son just was diagnosed with psoriasis and he’s just 20 yrs old.  The derm. >has had him on three different kinds of topical ointments and now he said its >all over his body.  Prior, it was just mostly on his elbows and some on his >hands. >I just read your note about calcium supplements and thought maybe it will work >for him.  I’m new to this news group and new to Psoriasis for that matter.  I’m >just trying to learn all I can to help my son who is a working college student >and this stuff is driving him crazy!!!  

Sorry to hear about your son. The peak age of onset is actually in the 20s although a bit later. Is he seeing a derm with a specialty in psoriasis? If not, you should really try to find him one. Derm per se does not mean psoriasis expert.  Also, what kind does he have? If it’s guttate, given his age, where he is, and the rate you indicate it spread you might look into seeing if he has an infection like strep as a trigger. In that case, getting rid of the infection is really part of treating the psoriasis. There’s lots of info available on the group and in places listed in the FAQ in my .sig As to the calcium thing. First and foremost, if one of his topicals is dovonex then talk with a doctor before you get involved with calcium supplements. Dovonex is a vitamin D analog which can increase the body’s absorption of calcium (excess calcium with overdose is the only significant risk with using it), which can have some nasty side effects over time. And not to sound overly cynical, but starting with when this person posted saying calcium cured their P (which they later had to back off of to some degree) in one thread, then tried to make the biologics out as failures in another, I’ve been bombarded with spam about coral calcium, which was not something I was getting spammed about before. I’m not accusing this poster of being involved with the spam, but certainly the spam indicates that coral calcium is being heavily pushed to those interested in alternative med as the latest cure all for everything. Remissions can occur for lots of reasons, and sometimes for none. The supplements may or may not have helped this person, but there are also lots of other alternatives people have said the same sort of things about. And you really do need to be careful if he’s using dovonex. You actually need to be careful and check out interrelations like that before trying any alternative med like supplements. Contrary to advertising, all natural doesn’t mean 100% safe. >Let me know if others have tried it also with good results. >P.S.  Someone told me that Selson Blue (for dandruff) also helps.  Have you >heard about this treatment?

A big thing to remember is that nothing works for everyone or the same for everyone, so one person’s ‘helps’ is another person’s ‘totally worthless’. Some people have reported it helping them others prefer other shampoos. You can check out the ng archives: http://pinch.com/skinny?skin=selsun+psoriasis best Kim The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at               http://www.psoriasisfaq.com but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a            newsgroup near you…

Response:

SORRY about the double posting!  I lost the first one and thought I had accidentally deleted it.  Guess not!   Best regards,

Response:

My son just was diagnosed with psoriasis and he’s just 20 yrs old.  The derm. has had him on three different kinds of topical ointments and now he said its all over his body.  Prior, it was just mostly on his elbows and some on his hands. I just read your note about calcium supplements and thought maybe it will work for him.  I’m new to this news group and new to Psoriasis for that matter.  I’m just trying to learn all I can to help my son who is a working college student and this stuff is driving him crazy!!!   Let me know if others have tried it also with good results. P.S.  Someone told me that Selson Blue (for dandruff) also helps.  Have you heard about this treatment?

Response:

> P.S.  Someone told me that Selson Blue (for dandruff) also helps. Have you > heard about this treatment?

        I’ve been using the stuff on and off for years and it works nicely. Some- times I switch to a different treatment so my body won’t get too accustomed to it. There is a higher-strength Selsun available by prescription..         If I have a scalp lesion in only a small area, such as the top of my forehead, I might jump-start healing by squirting a few drops of Lidex (steroid in liquid form) on it. Robin

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>My son just was diagnosed with psoriasis and he’s just 20 yrs old.  The derm. >has had him on three different kinds of topical ointments and now he said its >all over his body.  Prior, it was just mostly on his elbows and some on his >hands. >I just read your note about calcium supplements and thought maybe it will work >for him.  I’m new to this news group and new to Psoriasis for that matter.  I’m >just trying to learn all I can to help my son who is a working college student >and this stuff is driving him crazy!!!  

Sorry to hear of anyone, especially someone young, having a serious problem with psoriasis. >P.S.  Someone told me that Selson Blue (for dandruff) also helps.  Have you >heard about this treatment?

The active ingredient is (was?) selenium sulfide, you can get the same thing in Head and Shoulders Intensive Treatment.  Yeah, I was even given a prescription-strength version of the same, years and years ago. Besides making you smell like the devil, it didn’t seem to have much of any effect on my psoriasis. If your son has seen such a quick spread, and it continues, there are some stronger conventional treatments that the doctor will probably suggest. Good luck to him! J.

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>( Just some cheap brand >called "Nature Made"

Since you’re already buying from them, you might be interested in signing up for their online discount thingy.  Go to http://www.naturemade.com  and set up an account for their rewards program.  You enter the code numbers as requested and get a $7.00 coupon after you get enough points.  I’ve gotten two of them so far, the first just from looking up the numbers from my closet. Best regards,

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>Just some cheap brand >called "Nature Made"    

Since you’re already buying from them, you might be interested in their online rewards program.  Go to http://www.naturemade.com  and set up your password and stuff.  Then you just enter the numbers as requested from the bottles in your cabinet and you get a $7.00 coupon in the mail, up to once a month. I have gotten two of them so far, the first just from looking at the bottles in my closet. Best regards,

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   Yes, many people see an improvement when abstaining from dairy products.     "Dairy products" have become synonymous with "Calcium", but there are sources of calcium other than dairy products!    So that leads me to believe that something else besides the calcium in dairy products agravates psoriasis.   If people see an improvement from avoiding dairy products, that does not mean it was the calcium that made their Psoriasis worse!     I’ve had psoriasis for about 3 years and I’ve never had a remision period until I took the calcium supplements for a few months( Just some cheap brand called "Nature Made"      You are absolutely right, my remision may have nothing to do with the calcium!       Im not saying with 100% certainty that it was the calcium supplements that made my lesions vanish.    Im just saying it is a possibility if the Coral Calcium really works (which I’m not even sure about)     Im just considering that Coral Calcium might help  psoriasis.  

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http://www.hhmi.org/research/investigators/crabtree.html > These may shed some light on this p pathway. > Now, if those coral Ca hucksters had a good study > or two on real psoriatics i’d be surprised. As the > cat would be outa the bag and it would make almost > no difference for 98.2 of p sufferers at all. IMO > Btw, what company or brand of calcium were you taking? > randall

Some of the best information on taking calcium supplements I found on an osteoporosis website.  I found one of the benefits of taking calcium tablets was the http://www.osteoporosis.ca/OSTEO/D02-02d.html#prey A warning about too much calcium though.  I also found the following at:- http://naturalhealingdr.com/articles/calcium.html Calcium & Depression — Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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    I don’t know if it is just a coincidence or not, but I can’t attribute it to anything else!     I started taking this calcium supplement 3 times a day and after about 3 months my lesions were gone!      I did not have a severe case of psoriasis just a mild case (about 1 % of coverage)            I did not change anything else in my life over those month than taking the calcium supplements!       All I know is I started on calcium and 3 months later it was all gone!     That was about 6 months ago and it is still gone…no lesions or scales.        You might want to also read this little article about   "Coral Calcium"         Http://www.herbs4healing.com/New_Products/Coral_Calcium/coral_calcium.html   also      Http://www.1-coral-calcium.com/benefits.htm         and no I do not sell Coral Calcium      in fact   I did not take the Coral Calcium, just regular calcium!   You people might want to start looking into this!

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> I don’t know if it is just a coincidence or not, but I can’t attribute it > to anything else!     I started taking this calcium supplement 3 times a day > and after about 3 months my lesions were gone!      I did not have a severe > case of psoriasis just a mild case (about 1 % of coverage)

Hi xnxnxnxn, You one percenters crack me uP. Don’t get me wrong, i love your helP. >           I did not > change anything else in my life over those month than taking the calcium > supplements!

Yes, but you don’t live in a vacuum either. >       All I know is I started on calcium and 3 months later it was > all gone!     That was about 6 months ago and it is still gone…no lesions or > scales.        You might want to also read this little article about   "Coral > Calcium"         > Http://www.herbs4healing.com/New_Products/Coral_Calcium/coral_calcium.html >   also      Http://www.1-coral-calcium.com/benefits.htm         and no I do not > sell Coral Calcium      in fact   I did not take the Coral Calcium, just > regular calcium!   You people might want to start looking into this!

I think most of us have. Some who stoP using Dairy products (high source of Calcium) go into remmission also. How whould you explain that? If calcium tablets, pills or dietary factors helPed P much it would be in the medical literature. There are connections to Ca2+ that aren’t fullly understood. I’ll grab a few links.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… BTW, some more from one of the contributers on this last one, http://www.hhmi.org/research/investigators/crabtree.html These may shed some light on this p pathway. Now, if those coral Ca hucksters had a good study or two on real psoriatics i’d be surprised. As the cat would be outa the bag and it would make almost no difference for 98.2 of p sufferers at all. IMO Btw, what company or brand of calcium were you taking? randall

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Question:

 "I’d never join any club that would have me as a member." Wouldn’t it be nice if it were our choice? Sorry to hear about your flare.  Here’s hopin’ the best for your Dovenex and Gluten free experiments. The membership to this ever so joyous club, seems to be growing. Maybe we’re not as elite as I had thought.

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>  "I’d never join any club that would have me as a member." > Wouldn’t it be nice if it were our choice? > Sorry to hear about your flare.  Here’s hopin’ the best for your > Dovenex and Gluten free experiments.

If you do both which gets the credit for any clearings? > The membership to this ever so joyous club, seems to be growing.

You said a mouthfull. Those skin zinc ads are flaring up left and right. It used to be Wilka with 75% p coverage and now its Brian and two others giving their testimonials for this stuff. The ads have to be paid for. I’d love to know the democrap-ics on their returns etc. > Maybe we’re not as elite as I had thought.

Yes, are we P’s the canary in the cave or what? Hi, Yes and why a duck? Here’s another $64K dollar question for you. What does this mean? You work in the medical world. Nature 419, 77 – 81 (2002); doi:10.1038/nature01023   Protective role of phospholipid oxidation products in endotoxin-induced tissue damage VALERY N. BOCHKOV, ALEXANDRA KADL, JOAKIM HUBER, FLORIAN GRUBER, BERND R. BINDER & NORBERT LEITINGER Department of Vascular Biology and Thrombosis Research, University of Vienna, Schwarzspanierstrasse 17, 1090 Vienna, Austria; and BMT-Research, Brunnerstrasse 59/5, 1235 Vienna, Austria Lipopolysaccharide (LPS), an outer-membrane component of Gram-negative bacteria, interacts with LPS-binding protein and CD14, which present LPS to toll-like receptor 4 (refs 1, 2), which activates inflammatory gene expression through nuclear factor B (NFB) and mitogen-activated protein-kinase signalling. Antibacterial defence involves activation of neutrophils that generate reactive oxygen species capable of killing bacteria; therefore host lipid peroxidation occurs, initiated by enzymes such as NADPH oxidase and myeloperoxidase. Oxidized phospholipids are pro-inflammatory agonists promoting chronic inflammation in atherosclerosis; however, recent data suggest that they can inhibit expression of inflammatory adhesion molecules. Here we show that oxidized phospholipids inhibit LPS-induced but not tumour-necrosis factor–induced or interleukin-1-induced NFB-mediated upregulation of inflammatory genes, by blocking the interaction of LPS with LPS-binding protein and CD14. Moreover, in LPS-injected mice, oxidized phospholipids inhibited inflammation and protected mice from lethal endotoxin shock. Thus, in severe Gram-negative bacterial infection, endogenously formed oxidized phospholipids may function as a negative feedback to blunt innate immune responses. Furthermore, identified chemical structures capable of inhibiting the effects of endotoxins such as LPS could be used for the development of new drugs for treatment of sepsis. Do we P’s just have some subclinical amount of lPs? And does it take a P gene with LPS as the icing on the cake? Is streP the one and only trigger and can it be subclinical? And oh yes, LPS is crap, right? randall… oh well

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I guess I am another member of the 2% club.  Recently we had a spell of very hot and humid weather and I experienced a flare of guttate psoriasis.  My legs and arms are covered and I am trying Dovonex for the second time( used it about 3 years ago.)           My father used to find the sun helpful but it makes me worse. I am considering trying gluten free diet to see if that helps.                                         Diane

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Question:

<< there’s a definite link between throat and infections and outbreaks,  >> Don’t overlook the possibility that you have a secondary fungus infection. Burning feet are often more than psoriasis. Also, many p treatments allow fungus to grow even more as does antibiotic treatment. I course of Sporonox set me on the road to recovery. Though I still have some plaques on feet and heels of hands, they do not burn and they only itch a little. Cortisone and antibiotics encourage fungal growth. Insist on a test for fungus when you see your derm. Ellen Harding Anderson

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: First time poster. Wondering if anyone has experience with guttate : psoriasis. Like Sad Man, I feel like I’m a member of the lucky 2% of the 2%. : I’m 31 and have had these scaly spots appear off an on for the past 5 years. : The first time I had it checked out, my PCP thought it was secondary : syphillis. Turned out it wasn’t, of course. Though now I kind of wish it had : been. That would have been relatively easy to get rid of. The dermatologist : diagnosed guttate psoriasis, gave me UVB treatments and said it probably : wouldn’t come back after the treatments worked. When it came back again last : winter, it never fully went away after UVB treatment. It was almost entirely : gone this summer. However, last week it came back with a vengeance. : Strangely, it is all over my arms, hands and feet and itches like never : before. I’m anxious to get in to see the dermatologist (why is it so hard to : get an appointment?) and do UVB treatments again, but after reading posts : here I’m a little discouraged about my options. These treatments seem to be : the only hope for me since ointments and creams are tedious and ineffective. : I’m trying to improve my eating habits. I cut out coffee and am taking : Salmon Oil and Acidophilus. I’ve done a bit of research on-line thanks to : the many resources offered here. However, I don’t see much about my : particular brand of P. If anyone has any particular insights or experiences, : I’d love to hear them. : : Thanks, : : Steve : : Same boat here – I’m on a steady diet of UVB (twice weekly, 8 minutes at a time), and have been for the past 4 years.  It’s the ONLY thing that works (I take glucosamine sulfate and MSM as well, and I actually believe it’s a combination of the 3 things that does the job for me) and keeps it practically 100% at bay. Bit of a pain in the butt, but the easiest, safest and most complete solution I’ve come up with. If I miss more than 2 visits, the P starts its return.

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hi 32male from sydney i have them allover my legs and arms to wat do u suggest? ive tryed like urself all the creams and wat knots….and nothing now its getting warmer there getting bigger!! any way bye 4 now cheers!. glenn

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>Kim, >Thanks for the tons of information you have provided me. I think maybe I was >overreacting a bit as this is probably the worst flare up I’ve ever had. I >feel so uncomfortable from the itching and the spots all over my body make >me feel ugly.

Pretty understandable to be frustrated and upset to the point of madness : ) > It does seem like this is triggered every time I have a sore throat. >Does that mean I should stay on antibiotics or consider a tonsillectomy?

Well, it definitely makes it something to talk about with the doctor. Staying on antibiotics long term isn’t really a good idea for a bunch of reasons, but they might want to leave you on them a bit longer or try a different one to make sure the infection is really getting totally killed off rather than festering low grade until it pops up again. Ditto with the tonsillectomy. While I don’t think it makes sense as a general P preventative as it’s sometimes suggested for, in a case where there’s a definite link between throat and infections and outbreaks, yeah, it’s probably worth at least considering. It IS a surgery though, which means not risk free. >Stress is probably a major factor as well. From one of the links you >provided, someone mentioned using Celexa, an anti-depressant. I found that >interesting and will ask my PCP about it. I feel limited by my HMO and >financial situation as to all I can access and try. I live in Chicago, so it >would seem *someone* would have narrow band UVB.

Northwestern for one http://www.dermatology.northwestern.edu/html/phototherapy_treatment_c… > What about Anthralin for a >person like me? Any other systemics?

Sorry about the confusion. Anthralin is a topical. The thing with systemics is that they’re pretty much all higher risk than things like UVB and topicals. So they’re usually not used unless the P is pretty severe. Where yours has spread so much so suddenly that may make them an option, but it honestly is a better idea to try some other options first and save the systemics as a default option if nothing else works or the P gets wildly out of control. That being said, the NPF treatment ladder http://www.psoriasis.org/c100.htm will give you an idea of what’s out there. And it’s worth noting that this is the area where there will soon be significant changes with things like the pending approval of Amevive and research into other targeted immunosuppressants. One other thought is PUVA, which is riskier than UVB re: cancer from exposure over the long term, but uses a drug you take orally (although it can be found in a topical form too) – psoralen- to make you more responsive to the benefit of UVA light and works better than UVB for most. Narrow band seems to have replaced it as a primary option in many places though. >I hope my post didn’t feel like I was suggesting that there were no options >available to me. I just find everything a bit overwhelming – especially when >I’m freaking out from a flare up.

Yup, and that’s the way it sounded – like you were extremely frustrated and overwhelmed. And part of that with P is that there are no easy answers on what to do about it. > Also, my point about comparing myself to Sad Man was not to >mean I was in his group per se, just that I thought my condition was >relatively uncommon.

Dunno if it’s any comfort to know that it really isn’t. It’s the most common type of P among children for example. And I suspect that a lot of doctor diagnoses don’t bother to distinguish between guttate and plaque. >I truly appreciate the information disseminated on the ng. Without it, I >don’t think I’d be able to arm myself with questions for my dermatologist.

Hey, good for you for wanting to go in with them rather than waiting for him to tell you everything you need to know. Don’t be afraid to ask in response to what he suggests too. That’s the one a lot of people miss out on doing. Whatever he recommends, ask him why that and not other options or a combination of them, ask him what the associated side effect possibilities/risks are and make sure you’re clear on how he says to use it (and why, if any of what he says seems wierd). And don’t forget that you have a right to refuse a treatment option you don’t like for whatever reason and ask for an alternative. I respond very badly to the steroid topicals and have had to head butt with more than one doctor over my refusal to use them because of that. let us know how it goes Kim The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at               http://www.psoriasisfaq.com but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a            newsgroup near you…

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Kim, Thanks for the tons of information you have provided me. I think maybe I was overreacting a bit as this is probably the worst flare up I’ve ever had. I feel so uncomfortable from the itching and the spots all over my body make me feel ugly. I’m not a shy person and love to be outside, but this is the first time it’s been all over my hands and arms. My hands and feet are the worst. They feel like and feel like they are burning. I just feel so frustrated and depressed. I can’t get in to see my dermatologist until September 3rd. I’m going to see what other options I might have on Monday if I can. It does seem like this is triggered every time I have a sore throat. Does that mean I should stay on antibiotics or consider a tonsillectomy? Stress is probably a major factor as well. From one of the links you provided, someone mentioned using Celexa, an anti-depressant. I found that interesting and will ask my PCP about it. I feel limited by my HMO and financial situation as to all I can access and try. I live in Chicago, so it would seem *someone* would have narrow band UVB. What about Anthralin for a person like me? Any other systemics? Applying creams and ointments are options still, I suppose. But you are right, playing dot to dot is time consuming, irritating and frustrating, especially when it hasn’t worked in the past for me. I guess I’ll have to wait and see. I hope my post didn’t feel like I was suggesting that there were no options available to me. I just find everything a bit overwhelming – especially when I’m freaking out from a flare up. I’m sure people understand. And I know it could be worse. Also, my point about comparing myself to Sad Man was not to mean I was in his group per se, just that I thought my condition was relatively uncommon. I truly appreciate the information disseminated on the ng. Without it, I don’t think I’d be able to arm myself with questions for my dermatologist. Thanks Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->First time poster. Wondering if anyone has experience with guttate >psoriasis. Like Sad Man, I feel like I’m a member of the lucky 2% of the 2%. > Not that it matters, but I think you misunderstood him. What he was > talking about was being one of the minority of those with P who react > negatively to UV. >I’ve done a bit of research on-line thanks to >the many resources offered here. However, I don’t see much about my >particular brand of P. If anyone has any particular insights or experiences, >I’d love to hear them. > I’m actually kind of suprised that you didn’t find much about guttate > as it’s pretty common, especially among kids and with those for whom > an infection is the primary trigger. I suppose part of the reason is > that other than the more common infection link, there isn’t all that > much difference in approaches to that and other forms. > There certainly would be tons of stuff in the ng archives that can be > searched using the links at http://www.pinch.com/skin > e.g. http://pinch.com/skinny?skin=guttate+psoriasis > You might also look at some of the other psoriasis communities, such > as Ed Dewke’s Flake HQ http://www.flakehq.com/ > I’m going to assume you’ve been through the NPF stuff, since you speak > of searching yourself. > You might talk with your doc about trying narrow band UVB rather than > UVB, since that can be more effective for many, including longer > remissions. And perhaps think in terms of a combination therapy to > boost the benefit of the UVB by using it with something else, whether > something that increases photosensitivity like topical tar (CAREFUL > about burning risks though) or just layering in another shot at the P. > It’s a way to integrate some of the topicals on the most persistant > places to get their benefit  without driving yourself playing connect > the dots in applying it everywhere. > You also might want to look for environmental triggers to avoid. The > fact that it never went away after it had before would make me look > for something that might be re-triggering it despite best efforts to > control it. The classic one is infections of course – any chance of > lingering strep or any such thing, or even a mild fungal? How are your > teeth – any chance of something lingering in there? But also think in > terms of things like changing soaps and laundry soaps and > moisturizers. Does stress trigger yours? Maybe some regular relaxation > techniques would help get things under control.  As to diet, there IS > no P diet but there certainly are people with dietary triggers, that > vary a great deal. You might want to branch out a bit in looking to > identify if you have any > There actually are a fair number of options to try, ranging from > alternative to the most conventional of meds, although none of them > work for everyone, and some of them may involve things you don’t want > to deal with. The fact that some can be a pain in the butt, such as > applying topicals to scattered guttate doesn’t make them non-options, > just ones that you don’t want to use. And you always have to remember > that most of the people here in the ng are those having the biggest > problems or they wouldn’t have the interest to put time into being > here. So don’t let that make you think its hopeless. > Best > Kim > The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at >               http://www.psoriasisfaq.com > but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a >            newsgroup near you…

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>Thanks a bunch Dave !  :- (

Well, if you think about it a little bit, and total up all the 2% things we all have in our lives, you’ll find, not surprisingly, that the odds against someone else being just like you are about 6 billion to one (and getting steeper every day). – Dave W. http://psorsite.com/

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[snip] >MAN !, what an elite club I would belong too then.  2% of the >2% of the 2%.  I am SUCH a special person !!!  I can hardly contain >myself I’m so freaking happy !!!

If you’re one of the lucky few who have no family history of psoriasis, you can tack on another minority percentage (although it’s not as low as 2%).  And if you’re getting psoriatic arthritis, there’s another small percentage to multiply in. Now, have you ever been hit by lightning or attacked by a shark? – Dave W. http://psorsite.com/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > [snip] >MAN !, what an elite club I would belong too then.  2% of the >2% of the 2%.  I am SUCH a special person !!!  I can hardly contain >myself I’m so freaking happy !!! > If you’re one of the lucky few who have no family history of psoriasis, you can > tack on another minority percentage (although it’s not as low as 2%).  And if > you’re getting psoriatic arthritis, there’s another small percentage to > multiply in. > Now, have you ever been hit by lightning or attacked by a shark? > – Dave W. > http://psorsite.com/

I was nearly hit by lightning!  It hit my block of flats just before I got to the door!  Am I lucky or what! Must be true it was in the newspapers – ball lightning apparently. — Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

> First time poster. Wondering if anyone has experience with guttate > psoriasis. Like Sad Man, I feel like I’m a member of the lucky 2% of the 2%.

What I meant by the 2% of the 2% was,…….I’m guessing that approximately 2% of the population has P and that possibly 2% of that 2% do poorly with UVB Rx and or the sun.  I’m not sure what the percentage is of guttate amongst us P people but if that were also to be 2%, MAN !, what an elite club I would belong too then.  2% of the 2% of the 2%.  I am SUCH a special person !!!  I can hardly contain myself I’m so freaking happy !!! Yeah 222, yeah 222, yeah 222, 222, 222, 222, 222 !!!!!!   Whoopeeeee !!!!!!!

Response:

>> First time poster. Wondering if anyone has experience with guttate > psoriasis. Like Sad Man, I feel like I’m a member of the lucky 2% of the 2%. >What I meant by the 2% of the 2% was,…….I’m guessing that >approximately 2% of the population has P and that possibly 2% of that >2% do poorly with UVB Rx and or the sun.

FWIW, it’s probably higher. I’m pretty sure that the old NPF site used to give a figure that was something like 16-20% of those with P respond negatively to the sun. > I’m not sure what the >percentage is of guttate amongst us P people but if that were also to >be 2%, MAN !, what an elite club I would belong too then.  2% of the >2% of the 2%.  I am SUCH a special person !!!  I can hardly contain >myself I’m so freaking happy !!!

Well, you don’t have to put up with the "I wish MY doctor would prescribe a suntan for me <ha ha ha>’ comments. Yeah, I know. Not a lot of comfort. Kim The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at               http://www.psoriasisfaq.com but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a            newsgroup near you…

Response:

> If you’re one of the lucky few who have no family history of psoriasis, you can > tack on another minority percentage (although it’s not as low as 2%).

Well, as a matter of fact, neither of my parents and none of my actually he’s only a half brother, from a different father so it was my mother who passed on the legacy, somehow without getting it herself and without her parents having it.  Thanks Mom. My aunt on my mothers side is in her sixties and is just starting to have some scalp P. Just thought of another minority situation.  I’m a nurse of the male persuasion.  Not too many of us around and on top of that, I’m a heterosexual male nurse.  Well, well, well, I’m just a really special guy huh? As far as the lightning, well, it’s finally raining today and I think I better stay inside. So now I have to stay inside in good whether AND bad.  Thanks a bunch Dave !  :- (

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First time poster. Wondering if anyone has experience with guttate psoriasis. Like Sad Man, I feel like I’m a member of the lucky 2% of the 2%. I’m 31 and have had these scaly spots appear off an on for the past 5 years. The first time I had it checked out, my PCP thought it was secondary syphillis. Turned out it wasn’t, of course. Though now I kind of wish it had been. That would have been relatively easy to get rid of. The dermatologist diagnosed guttate psoriasis, gave me UVB treatments and said it probably wouldn’t come back after the treatments worked. When it came back again last winter, it never fully went away after UVB treatment. It was almost entirely gone this summer. However, last week it came back with a vengeance. Strangely, it is all over my arms, hands and feet and itches like never before. I’m anxious to get in to see the dermatologist (why is it so hard to get an appointment?) and do UVB treatments again, but after reading posts here I’m a little discouraged about my options. These treatments seem to be the only hope for me since ointments and creams are tedious and ineffective. I’m trying to improve my eating habits. I cut out coffee and am taking Salmon Oil and Acidophilus. I’ve done a bit of research on-line thanks to the many resources offered here. However, I don’t see much about my particular brand of P. If anyone has any particular insights or experiences, I’d love to hear them. Thanks, Steve

Response:

>First time poster. Wondering if anyone has experience with guttate >psoriasis. Like Sad Man, I feel like I’m a member of the lucky 2% of the 2%.

Not that it matters, but I think you misunderstood him. What he was talking about was being one of the minority of those with P who react negatively to UV. >I’ve done a bit of research on-line thanks to >the many resources offered here. However, I don’t see much about my >particular brand of P. If anyone has any particular insights or experiences, >I’d love to hear them.

I’m actually kind of suprised that you didn’t find much about guttate as it’s pretty common, especially among kids and with those for whom an infection is the primary trigger. I suppose part of the reason is that other than the more common infection link, there isn’t all that much difference in approaches to that and other forms. There certainly would be tons of stuff in the ng archives that can be searched using the links at http://www.pinch.com/skin e.g. http://pinch.com/skinny?skin=guttate+psoriasis You might also look at some of the other psoriasis communities, such as Ed Dewke’s Flake HQ http://www.flakehq.com/ I’m going to assume you’ve been through the NPF stuff, since you speak of searching yourself. You might talk with your doc about trying narrow band UVB rather than UVB, since that can be more effective for many, including longer remissions. And perhaps think in terms of a combination therapy to boost the benefit of the UVB by using it with something else, whether something that increases photosensitivity like topical tar (CAREFUL about burning risks though) or just layering in another shot at the P. It’s a way to integrate some of the topicals on the most persistant places to get their benefit  without driving yourself playing connect the dots in applying it everywhere. You also might want to look for environmental triggers to avoid. The fact that it never went away after it had before would make me look for something that might be re-triggering it despite best efforts to control it. The classic one is infections of course – any chance of lingering strep or any such thing, or even a mild fungal? How are your teeth – any chance of something lingering in there? But also think in terms of things like changing soaps and laundry soaps and moisturizers. Does stress trigger yours? Maybe some regular relaxation techniques would help get things under control.  As to diet, there IS no P diet but there certainly are people with dietary triggers, that vary a great deal. You might want to branch out a bit in looking to identify if you have any There actually are a fair number of options to try, ranging from alternative to the most conventional of meds, although none of them work for everyone, and some of them may involve things you don’t want to deal with. The fact that some can be a pain in the butt, such as applying topicals to scattered guttate doesn’t make them non-options, just ones that you don’t want to use. And you always have to remember that most of the people here in the ng are those having the biggest problems or they wouldn’t have the interest to put time into being here. So don’t let that make you think its hopeless. Best Kim The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at               http://www.psoriasisfaq.com but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a            newsgroup near you…

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