Psoriasis Doctor

Question:

You’re one angry kitty  aren’t you. Do you bite or just scratch?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Zealots eventually run out of hot air and fade away, thank God LOL!!! > You still haven’t answered my questions, Marilyn – let’s get crackin’! > -bg- > Kitty

Response:

Honey, the only thing that seems to be a bitch around here is you.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’d been off dairy, (and wheat gluten for those zealots), for years when > I developed RA.  I rarely ever ate dairy as a child just because I > didn’t like the taste. > Ain’t it a bitch!  Now explain that, Marilyn! > -bg- > Kitty

Response:

Hardly practicing medicine.  Supporting is a better description. She will continue with her visits to her Dr. Calcium is gotten from green leafy veges. The dairy board? That’s funny! DrSusan what do you have against giving up dairy in exchange for no pain? Of course all the vitamins and minerals that were aquired through milk should be supplemented either through diet or pill form. This discussion could be used for education rather than attacking.But if this is the only excersise people get that’s fine with me too. > Naw, we can make money treating her for osteoporosis and compression > fractures.

I suppose the only patients you have are those of a no dairy diet. Can we say that the Oriental people are one of the fewest peoples with arthritis? They have a no dairy diet. I’m open for the problems that can be encountered from this diet. I am not claiming :"know it all."  I am stateing that the dairy could very much be a cause of the pain and intensity of Rheumatoid arthritis. I am also not saying this will affect everyone. The advice of continueing visits with a Rheumatoid specialist is good advice. When we become sympton free we tend to forget regular check ups. Just like our anual pap smears we need to remember our other visits. Please remember I am twisting no ones arm to try this. It’s entirely up to you.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This new girl we are working on has seen some results. > It sounds to me like you are practicing medicine on this "new girl" > without a license. > I hope you have put her on calcium supplements and vitamin D because > if not, she is likely to develop osteoporosis of she stays on a low > calcium diet for long enough. > What is the major source of calcium and D in her diet now? >  She just started and >has a long way to go. She saw a pain increase when she went all out at her >sisters house with the cheese and butter. That’s the first step. She didn’t >believe us the first few years we were telling her. >The begining is hard because All dairy has to be stopped. It stays in the >fat cells so it takes a long time to get out of the body. > But the callcium doesn’t stay in your bones if your diet is deficient. > My friend can now >(after 6 years) eat the hidden dairy without the terrible results. If she >get sloppy with her eating she is in pain. I know when she eats wrong, I see >her hobbeling along. And she usually gets worried that this time the pain >won’t go away. We reassure each other that it will, and it does. >Medicaly; why would they want to find a natural result for this. It’s a big >money maker. > Naw, we can make money treating her for osteoporosis and compression > fractures. > But you better watch out – the Dairy Board will get you. > Remember, milk, it’s a Natural! > DrSusan >> >I know people who are pain free because of this.< >> Good give us their names and how we get in touch with them.  I’d love to >talk >> to them. >>  How many people >do you know who are pain free because of diet?< >> Absolutely none, actually. >> >If this helps anyone you should be happy for them. A definate 3 out of 4 >> >people are good statics. Why the negativity? If it helps ANYONE it’s >good! >> >We’re working on 4 out of 5. This new sufferer is seeing the decrease in >> >pain already. Pain is pain. She has realized the severity of it has been >> >decreasing. That is the first step.< >> You’re really good at quoting stats Marilyn, but I don’t see any back up >for >> them, not any conclusive medical studies.   I have several questions for >you: >> 1.  Do you have a form of arthritis yourself? >> 2.  If so what kind? >> 3.  Did this work for you? >> 4.   If so, in what time frame? >> 5.  Exactly where are you getting your statistics? >> The point that many of us are trying to make here to you is that we are >bright, >> intelligent people here who have gone to great lengths to become well >educated >> about the diseases with which we are plagued.  Many, many of us have tried >all >> sorts of things to try and alleviate the pain and to slow down the disease >> process. We all have good days and we have bad days.  But you don’t seem >to >> realize that you have come waltzing in here and carte blanche informed us >that >> diet control is the magic potion, quoting statistics for which you have no >back >> up and people who have no names.  It doesn’t work that way, just as >nothing >> works across the board for all of us. >> Anne

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->*I* cannot control my pain, at least not with diet. And I don’t appreciate >the >insinuation that I lack the will power or the desire to help myself. >~Krissy > Neither can I Krissy, so don’t let this woman get to you. Like you, I have > eliminated red meat and all dairy from my diet with no difference. Eliminated > nightshades as well and no change.  Of course, since I have erosive OA and not > RA (the fact that they are very closely related notwithstanding) I’ll be she > has an altogether different diet recommendation for me.  If diet worked, we’d > all be pain free and after last night, I’d kill for 24 hours like that. > Anne

I have a hit list… it’s a mile long do you have a millenium or so?

Response:

I’d been off dairy, (and wheat gluten for those zealots), for years when I developed RA.  I rarely ever ate dairy as a child just because I didn’t like the taste.   Ain’t it a bitch!  Now explain that, Marilyn! -bg- Kitty

Response:

> Rheumatoid arthritis.  I will certainly mention to my friend that the heart > and lungs can be affected. Is there any information you can give me to pass > on about this?

I’d start at http://arthritisnet.com/ and print off the basic information about RA for her.  Then I’d advise her to find a rheumatologist, and see him religiously.  The first thing she needs to do is to exactly what kind of arthritis she has.  As long as the diet or whatever she’s doing works, wonderful.  But she needs to make sure there isn’t damage going on that she doesn’t know about.  Also, other treatments can work well for a while and then give out — the same thing might be true of this diet.  If she ever does need to change treatments, she already will have a history established with a doctor. RiverRat

Response:

Zealots eventually run out of hot air and fade away, thank God LOL!!! You still haven’t answered my questions, Marilyn – let’s get crackin’! -bg- Kitty

Response:

> How many people total?  How long have you followed them?  Are you 100% sure > they’re sticking on the diet the way they tell you — that is, how often are > you actually there to see what they’re eating?

3 people out of 4 who stayed off dairy for an amount of time to determine whether it would work or not. My friend and neighbor has been off dairy for 6 years.  My sisters friend who decided that if her psoriasis acted up when she ate cheese, would give it a chance. She has been off for about 4 or 5 years. She recently had a baby and my sister told me she was able to eat dairy when she was pregnant but soon afterward started to develope pain again. She was under a Dr’s care until she was able to get off the anti-inflammitories for good. A man in a deli who was told and was seen month later hugging my friends brother thanking him for "saving his life". One man tried and it had a slight effect on him but his arthritis was too far gone, or of a variety that it had no affect. We are now following a woman who has confessed that her pain was better until she went all out with the dairy at her sisters house and was suffering for it the next day. My friend’s pain came two days later. This woman just started and we cant’ be sure yet if it will work. She shows hope because of her worse pain when she ate the dairy. Actually she didn’t realize her pain was better until it got worse, then she realized how it may be getting better. She’s still our study project. She is in enough pain to try it. I really believe you have to be in enough pain to try yet another thing. This one doesn’t cost anything. .  Unhappy > patients are going to get fed up and take their trade down the street — and > probably take a couple friends with them.  Happy patients come back, and > tell their friends what a great job their doctor did.

What are the alternatives to anti-inflammatories that ruin your body in addition to the arthritis ruining your body. I’m not sure,but my friend told me they give chemo-therapy treatments now when the anti-inflammatories aren’t good. This is hear say to me and I’m not knowledgeable enough to know. I’d rather try giving up dairy. The medical field is in business to make money. I know the results aren’t in the thousands but if you think about it 3 out of 4 personally known to try is not bad.  I know many who will not try. They don’t believe it and don;’t want to make that major change. As I said before this is only for those who want to try it. If it gets one person out of pain it’s worth it. Marilyn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My statics are from people that both she , I or her brother know of > personally. One man had very bad arthritis of the back I’m not sure what > kind, He had it for a long time and I think it degenerated so much that it > didn’t help. He stayed on the diet for a long time and gave it plenty of > time to work. It didn’t . > How many people total?  How long have you followed them?  Are you 100% sure > they’re sticking on the diet the way they tell you — that is, how often are > you actually there to see what they’re eating? > Medicaly; why would they want to find a natural result for this. It’s a > big > money maker. > H’mm.  Here’s the old trick of trying to discredit the medical profession > with the accusation that actually curing diseases would put them out of > business.  Umm, we’ve seen this before, but it just doesn’t hold water. > Anyone in any kind of a business knows that repeat visits from satisfied > customers are the core of their clientele, and I’ll bet dollars to donuts > that a medical business is no different from anything else.  Unhappy > patients are going to get fed up and take their trade down the street — and > probably take a couple friends with them.  Happy patients come back, and > tell their friends what a great job their doctor did. > — > RiverRat  sratliff-at-zoomnet-dot-net

Response:

> There’s nothing wrong with discussing what’s worked for you and suggesting > that other people try it.  Please try to understand why we’re a little > skeptical of anything that isn’t supported by double-blind studies.

That’s all I’m trying to do. I don’t have arthritis. My friend does(?) but only when she eats dairy foods. Rheumatoid arthritis at least as she had it, could not be hid only to keep friendships. The pain was too much to hide. I have no intention of doing double blind studies or any thing else for that matter. I’m only suggesting you give up dairy let’s say for 6 months. ALL dairy. It’s in almost eveything you eat. It’s very hard to change your diet. After 6 months go back to dairy products. If your pain is a lot worse than you know that dairy is causing your pain. I’m not trying to sell anything here am I? I guess I could say send $5 for a hint on controlling your pain.Then you could say I’m not being honest. Dairy goes by many different names; casein, lactaid, whey just to name a few. It’s also in margarines and breads, bakery products, ect… > Another factor is that the pain from most forms of arthritis isn’t constant. > There are good days and bad days.  When you start talking about inflammatory > forms of arthritis, they can flare and go into remission on their own.

Gee! do you think it could have to do with what you ate 2 days ago perhaps? This is exactly what she discovered, 2 days after she ate dairy she had pain. 1-2 weeks to get rid of the pain. It got better each day but before it was gone was about a week or two. > Also, some people who like you and want to stay friends with you may be > telling you what you want to hear in order to avoid an argument.  They’ve > probably got a dozen other friends and relatives after them to try one fad > treatment after another, and it gets very tiresome to keep explaining to > them over and over again.  Most of us learn to smile and tell a little white > lie — our friends get to think they’re being helpful, while we go on to do > what we know is best for us.

Not a chance here! > The important fact to keep in mind is that nothing works miracles for > everyone.

Agreed! Neither will this. > I’m not sure if you mentioned in an earlier post what type of arthritis > you’re treating with this diet.  If it’s rheumatoid arthritis or one of the > other inflammatory types, you should at least have a doctor on board to make > sure it isn’t getting worse without you knowing about it.  Some forms of > arthritis can affect your whole body, not just your joints.  It can be life > threatening if your heart or lungs become affected.

Rheumatoid arthritis.  I will certainly mention to my friend that the heart and lungs can be affected. Is there any information you can give me to pass on about this? Marilyn

Response:

>Rheumatoid arthritis.  I will certainly mention to my friend that the heart >and lungs can be affected. Is there any information you can give me to pass >on about this?

Any accurate resource about RA will include the possibility of internal organ involvment. You should be able to find it just about anywhere. Drdoc’s site and ArthritisNet both include the information. I am sure the AF and ACR sites do too. Many people do not realize this and when people come along with their diet or miracle supplement claim, some uneducated person may drop all prescribed meds for the miracle cure. Or they try the diet or "cure", go into a natural remission and credit it to the "cure", stop all meds and stop seeing a rheumatologist. Meanwhile the RA is silently attacking the lungs or heart, or maybe the eyes. By the time symptoms present the heart is very enlarged or the lungs are full of RA or sight is severely damaged. The worst case senario is that the person could die. If they were not promised disease control or cure by the "good intentioned" snake oil salesman or "friend" they would have never stopped seeing the docs and dropped the meds. The disease would have stayed in check with the drugs or if it hadn’t the RD would have noticed the organ involvment early enough to hopefully stop the damage. Pretty tough way to realize the importance of good, quality medical care. I watched my grandma die of RA related heart and lung problems. Trust me, it is not a pleasant way to die!!! And I will do everything I can to make sure thats not the way I leave this world! Keep Smilin’ ~Krissy Akron, Ohio Visit my web pages at: http://arthritisnet.com http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/RA.html Coming to a computer near you on Nov. 12: http://www.arthritiswebsite.com

Response:

> My statics are from people that both she , I or her brother know of > personally. One man had very bad arthritis of the back I’m not sure what > kind, He had it for a long time and I think it degenerated so much that it > didn’t help. He stayed on the diet for a long time and gave it plenty of > time to work. It didn’t .

How many people total?  How long have you followed them?  Are you 100% sure they’re sticking on the diet the way they tell you — that is, how often are you actually there to see what they’re eating? > Medicaly; why would they want to find a natural result for this. It’s a big > money maker.

H’mm.  Here’s the old trick of trying to discredit the medical profession with the accusation that actually curing diseases would put them out of business.  Umm, we’ve seen this before, but it just doesn’t hold water. Anyone in any kind of a business knows that repeat visits from satisfied customers are the core of their clientele, and I’ll bet dollars to donuts that a medical business is no different from anything else.  Unhappy patients are going to get fed up and take their trade down the street — and probably take a couple friends with them.  Happy patients come back, and tell their friends what a great job their doctor did. — RiverRat  sratliff-at-zoomnet-dot-net

Response:

> I’m sorry if I offened you, but I will continue to spread the message. I > have come across more people who don’t want to try things, than people who > take the chance on trying. > One person who tried was not able to eliminate pain from his life. The rest > didn’t even want to try.

There’s nothing wrong with discussing what’s worked for you and suggesting that other people try it.  Please try to understand why we’re a little skeptical of anything that isn’t supported by double-blind studies.  You’re not the first person who’s come here thinking they’ve found the ultimate arthritis treatment, and maybe for them and some of their friends it was. Anecdotal evidence can give us the idea that you might have  something here worth looking into, but it doesn’t prove anything scientifically.  People who try your no-dairy diet may get better because they believe they’re going to — the placebo effect.  That’s a documented fact, but it doesn’t last, unfortunately. Another factor is that the pain from most forms of arthritis isn’t constant. There are good days and bad days.  When you start talking about inflammatory forms of arthritis, they can flare and go into remission on their own.  What can happen is, you can be having a bad day, try some new idea like a copper bracelet, and then have a string of good days by sheer coincidence.  But it’s human nature to think that the bracelet must have done it — we tend to look for causes and effects when sometimes things just happen at the same time without any relationship between them.  That’s where all sorts of superstitions and magical thinking comes from. Also, some people who like you and want to stay friends with you may be telling you what you want to hear in order to avoid an argument.  They’ve probably got a dozen other friends and relatives after them to try one fad treatment after another, and it gets very tiresome to keep explaining to them over and over again.  Most of us learn to smile and tell a little white lie — our friends get to think they’re being helpful, while we go on to do what we know is best for us. In order to find out how good your diet really is, you’d have to set up a double-blind study.  You would need two groups of people who have the same medical condition.  Half of them, the control group, would get dairy and beef products.  The other half, the study group, would get a substitute. The food would all have to look and taste the same, so no one would know which group they were in until after the study.  The doctors conducting the study would also be in the dark about who was in which group. Otherwise everyone would get the same food, to eliminate other variables. Everyone in the study would be closely monitored just in case there are problems.  After the study, everyone finds out which group they were in, and the results would be examined to see if the people in the study group really did statistically better than the control group.  Reputable studies are published in medical journals so that doctors and scientists in other places can repeat the study and see if they get the same results.  If it becomes clear that a significant number of people are going to improve as a result of your diet, then doctors will start promoting it to their patients, but they would also take care that the patients got enough calcium and protien from other sources. The important fact to keep in mind is that nothing works miracles for everyone.  Some people are doing well on Enbrel, others on a wide range of different treatments, but no one thing has ever worked for everyone.  On the OA side of things, lots of people are having great results with glucosamine, but I wasn’t one of them.  You need to keep an open mind because even though something might not work for you, someone else could have good results with it.  When you come in here and preach that you’ve found the one true way, and make it sound like we’re dumb as a load of bricks if we don’t hurry up and try it too, a lot of people are going to tune you out.  There are side effects to almost everything, but most people here are using some form a treatment that has been scientifically proven to be effective.  In life it’s a trade-off between what you have to gain and what you have to lose.  Until you can say the same thing, all you really have to go on is your own experience and opinion, which is no better or worse than anybody else’s. And in a world where most people, women especially, don’t get enough calcium, and osteoporosis causes so many fractures, I wouldn’t say that eliminating dairy products is completely free of potential side effects, unless you’re very careful to make up the difference from other sources.  If I were going to try something like this, I’d want the advice of a dietician to be sure I was getting proper nutrition. Another reason to be skeptical is that a lot of people who come onto the group singing the praises of some new treatment are really trying to sell something, whether it’s a supplement of some kind or a book about it.  I’m not accusing you of selling anything, because I’m sure you know we don’t allow advertising on this newsgroup.  I’m just saying that we’ve had enough snake-oil salespeople in here to make us suspicious at first. I’m not sure if you mentioned in an earlier post what type of arthritis you’re treating with this diet.  If it’s rheumatoid arthritis or one of the other inflammatory types, you should at least have a doctor on board to make sure it isn’t getting worse without you knowing about it.  Some forms of arthritis can affect your whole body, not just your joints.  It can be life threatening if your heart or lungs become affected. — RiverRat  sratliff-at-zoomnet-dot-net

Response:

1.  Do you have a form of arthritis yourself? No 2.  If so what kind? None 3.  Did this work for you? NA 4.   If so, in what time frame? It took her several months to be aware of significant pain loss. It was difficult because as she was seeing results she would eat something with hidden dairy and the pain would still be there. It would then take about a week or two to get back to where she was. It took a long time. 5.  Exactly where are you getting your statistics? My statics are from people that both she , I or her brother know of personally. One man had very bad arthritis of the back I’m not sure what kind, He had it for a long time and I think it degenerated so much that it didn’t help. He stayed on the diet for a long time and gave it plenty of time to work. It didn’t . This new girl we are working on has seen some results. She just started and has a long way to go. She saw a pain increase when she went all out at her sisters house with the cheese and butter. That’s the first step. She didn’t believe us the first few years we were telling her. The begining is hard because All dairy has to be stopped. It stays in the fat cells so it takes a long time to get out of the body. My friend can now (after 6 years) eat the hidden dairy without the terrible results. If she get sloppy with her eating she is in pain. I know when she eats wrong, I see her hobbeling along. And she usually gets worried that this time the pain won’t go away. We reassure each other that it will, and it does. Medicaly; why would they want to find a natural result for this. It’s a big money maker.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I know people who are pain free because of this.< > Good give us their names and how we get in touch with them.  I’d love to talk > to them. >  How many people >do you know who are pain free because of diet?< > Absolutely none, actually. >If this helps anyone you should be happy for them. A definate 3 out of 4 >people are good statics. Why the negativity? If it helps ANYONE it’s good! >We’re working on 4 out of 5. This new sufferer is seeing the decrease in >pain already. Pain is pain. She has realized the severity of it has been >decreasing. That is the first step.< > You’re really good at quoting stats Marilyn, but I don’t see any back up for > them, not any conclusive medical studies.   I have several questions for you: > 1.  Do you have a form of arthritis yourself? > 2.  If so what kind? > 3.  Did this work for you? > 4.   If so, in what time frame? > 5.  Exactly where are you getting your statistics? > The point that many of us are trying to make here to you is that we are bright, > intelligent people here who have gone to great lengths to become well educated > about the diseases with which we are plagued.  Many, many of us have tried all > sorts of things to try and alleviate the pain and to slow down the disease > process. We all have good days and we have bad days.  But you don’t seem to > realize that you have come waltzing in here and carte blanche informed us that > diet control is the magic potion, quoting statistics for which you have no back > up and people who have no names.  It doesn’t work that way, just as nothing > works across the board for all of us. > Anne

Response:

>I’m very >thick skinned.

Yes, I’ve noticed. Joyce

Response:

I am not blaming anyone. I am suggesting a way that MAY relieve your pain. Too bad you’re getting pissed off. I hope someone has sucess with this.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> marilyn, you’re pissin’ me off! > from diane, who really can’t handle a "blame the victim" mentality

Response:

I don’t claim that it will work for all. It has worked for some though! Yes I know them personally. I am not putting any victim blame on any one. I am telling you what has worked for people I know. I can also, right this second, understand why my friend does not share this with anyone. If this is what she gets from sharing this information I now know why she keeps it to herself. I have a big mouth and I’m not afraid of rejection, I’m also not in pain. I don’t have arthritis, but I suffered with my friend when she couldn’t even take care of her kids. For some reason God gave me a heart of compassion on this ailment of hers. I watched her struggle with uncertainty of whether this would work for her. I saw her become disappointed when she went back in pain because she was eating dairy and not aware of it. I saw her struggle as she wondered if she would ever become pain free again. Time proved to her that she will get over the pain when she started eating right again. I’ll see if she will come in here to share what her experience is like.  I feel the calling to spread the word, she doesn’t. Not that she doesn’t want to share but she doesn’t handle the aggressiveness as well as I do. I’m very thick skinned. If any one wants me to give her your email address I’ll see if she wants to get in touch with you. I have your address AChrist I know leave off the junkbloc and she can reach you. Do you want her to? Marilyn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I know people who are pain free because of this.< > Good give us their names and how we get in touch with them.  I’d love to talk > to them. >  How many people >do you know who are pain free because of diet?< > Absolutely none, actually. >If this helps anyone you should be happy for them. A definate 3 out of 4 >people are good statics. Why the negativity? If it helps ANYONE it’s good! >We’re working on 4 out of 5. This new sufferer is seeing the decrease in >pain already. Pain is pain. She has realized the severity of it has been >decreasing. That is the first step.< > You’re really good at quoting stats Marilyn, but I don’t see any back up for > them, not any conclusive medical studies.   I have several questions for you: > 1.  Do you have a form of arthritis yourself? > 2.  If so what kind? > 3.  Did this work for you? > 4.   If so, in what time frame? > 5.  Exactly where are you getting your statistics? > The point that many of us are trying to make here to you is that we are bright, > intelligent people here who have gone to great lengths to become well educated > about the diseases with which we are plagued.  Many, many of us have tried all > sorts of things to try and alleviate the pain and to slow down the disease > process. We all have good days and we have bad days.  But you don’t seem to > realize that you have come waltzing in here and carte blanche informed us that > diet control is the magic potion, quoting statistics for which you have no back > up and people who have no names.  It doesn’t work that way, just as nothing > works across the board for all of us. > Anne

Response:

marilyn, you’re pissin’ me off! from diane, who really can’t handle a "blame the victim" mentality

Response:

>I know people who are pain free because of this.<

Good give us their names and how we get in touch with them.  I’d love to talk to them.  How many people >do you know who are pain free because of diet?< Absolutely none, actually. >If this helps anyone you should be happy for them. A definate 3 out of 4 >people are good statics. Why the negativity? If it helps ANYONE it’s good! >We’re working on 4 out of 5. This new sufferer is seeing the decrease in >pain already. Pain is pain. She has realized the severity of it has been >decreasing. That is the first step.<

You’re really good at quoting stats Marilyn, but I don’t see any back up for them, not any conclusive medical studies.   I have several questions for you: 1.  Do you have a form of arthritis yourself? 2.  If so what kind? 3.  Did this work for you? 4.   If so, in what time frame? 5.  Exactly where are you getting your statistics?   The point that many of us are trying to make here to you is that we are bright, intelligent people here who have gone to great lengths to become well educated about the diseases with which we are plagued.  Many, many of us have tried all sorts of things to try and alleviate the pain and to slow down the disease process. We all have good days and we have bad days.  But you don’t seem to realize that you have come waltzing in here and carte blanche informed us that diet control is the magic potion, quoting statistics for which you have no back up and people who have no names.  It doesn’t work that way, just as nothing works across the board for all of us. Anne

Response:

Why do you look upon me as an enemy? I know people who are pain free because of this. NO DRUGS. How many people do you know who are pain free because of diet? I’m sorry it doesn’t work for you. I truly am sorry that your pain is bad. I commend you for trying different things. Most people don’t try. If this helps anyone you should be happy for them. A definate 3 out of 4 people are good statics. Why the negativity? If it helps ANYONE it’s good! We’re working on 4 out of 5. This new sufferer is seeing the decrease in pain already. Pain is pain. She has realized the severity of it has been decreasing. That is the first step. Why pooh pooh it for others who can benefit from this? You sound just like my friends doctor who told her it wouldn’t make a difference.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->*I* cannot control my pain, at least not with diet. And I don’t appreciate >the >insinuation that I lack the will power or the desire to help myself. >~Krissy > Neither can I Krissy, so don’t let this woman get to you. Like you, I have > eliminated red meat and all dairy from my diet with no difference. Eliminated > nightshades as well and no change.  Of course, since I have erosive OA and not > RA (the fact that they are very closely related notwithstanding) I’ll be she > has an altogether different diet recommendation for me.  If diet worked, we’d > all be pain free and after last night, I’d kill for 24 hours like that. > Anne

Response:

I’m sorry if I offened you, but I will continue to spread the message. I have come across more people who don’t want to try things, than people who take the chance on trying. One person who tried was not able to eliminate pain from his life. The rest didn’t even want to try. Right now my friend and I are working on a girl who felt no diet changes would help her. She has been controlling her dairy lately. The other day she told my friend that she ate out of control dairy the other day and the following day her pain was intense. More than it has been for a while. I won’t give up hope. My friend is afraid to tell anyone because she feels embarased to bring up the subject. She is afraid of rejection on this issue. I have a big mouth. I’ll spread the word. I changed the tiltle.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes Tina, But if it helps one person be free of pain it is worth all the >effort it takes to get the message out. > This is true. But the way you say it and the wording of the title makes it > sound like we CAN control our pain. And guess what, most of us can’t. Not with > diet modifications anyways. >The hardest thing to do Tina, is to try it for several months to see it has >any effect on you. It takes will power and a change of life. Not many people >want to put any work into it. Most people want a pill to take the pain away. >This is not a pill it is work. > I don’t think you realize that most of us in chronic pain would do ANYTHING to > end the pain. Will power is not an issue. "Not many people want to work at it"? > Do you think we like being in pain? Of course we are willing to work at it. Do > you have arthritis? Do you know what it is like? >Have you tried any dietary restrictions to see if a food allergy could be >the cause? > Yes I have. I eat very little diary or red meat anyways because they irritate > my stomach and cause diarrhea, I have better things to do then spend my life in > the bathroom. I have also totally eleminated them for a while with no > reductions in RA symptoms. It was not a major change in lifestyle since it is > not a large part of my diet to begin with. I have eliminated night shades with > the same result. I have kept a food journal to observe for any trigger foods. > Other than a slight increase in symptoms when I eat a lot of potatoes, I don’t > appear to have any food triggers. > *I* cannot control my pain, at least not with diet. And I don’t appreciate the > insinuation that I lack the will power or the desire to help myself. > ~Krissy > Akron, Ohio > Visit my web pages at: > http://arthritisnet.com > http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/RA.html > Coming to a computer near you on Nov. 12: http://www.arthritiswebsite.com

Response:

>*I* cannot control my pain, at least not with diet. And I don’t appreciate >the >insinuation that I lack the will power or the desire to help myself. >~Krissy

Neither can I Krissy, so don’t let this woman get to you. Like you, I have eliminated red meat and all dairy from my diet with no difference. Eliminated nightshades as well and no change.  Of course, since I have erosive OA and not RA (the fact that they are very closely related notwithstanding) I’ll be she has an altogether different diet recommendation for me.  If diet worked, we’d all be pain free and after last night, I’d kill for 24 hours like that. Anne

Response:

>Her brothers advice was right. The >role food played was an allergic reaction in her body that caused her >Rheumatoid arthritis. She is COMPLETELY pain free now.

That is wonderful for her and the others you describe! However that is not the case for everyone. You certainly cannot think we are all allergic to the same thing? A very small minority of RAer’s may benefit from certain dietary changes. Some people’s symptoms are actually food allergies. But that is not the case for the vast majority of us. Keep Smilin’ ~krissy Akron, Ohio Visit my web pages at: http://arthritisnet.com http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/RA.html Coming to a computer near you on Nov. 12: http://www.arthritiswebsite.com

Response:

Yes Tina, But if it helps one person be free of pain it is worth all the effort it takes to get the message out. The hardest thing to do Tina, is to try it for several months to see it has any effect on you. It takes will power and a change of life. Not many people want to put any work into it. Most people want a pill to take the pain away. This is not a pill it is work. Have you tried any dietary restrictions to see if a food allergy could be the cause? Marilyn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Her brothers advice was right. The >role food played was an allergic reaction in her body that caused her >Rheumatoid arthritis. She is COMPLETELY pain free now. > That is wonderful for her and the others you describe! However that is not the > case for everyone. You certainly cannot think we are all allergic to the same > thing? A very small minority of RAer’s may benefit from certain dietary > changes. Some people’s symptoms are actually food allergies. But that is not > the case for the vast majority of us. > Keep Smilin’ > ~krissy > Akron, Ohio > Visit my web pages at: > http://arthritisnet.com > http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/RA.html > Coming to a computer near you on Nov. 12: http://www.arthritiswebsite.com

Response:

 >Yes Tina, But if it helps one person be free of pain it is worth all the >effort it takes to get the message out.

This is true. But the way you say it and the wording of the title makes it sound like we CAN control our pain. And guess what, most of us can’t. Not with diet modifications anyways. >The hardest thing to do Tina, is to try it for several months to see it has >any effect on you. It takes will power and a change of life. Not many people >want to put any work into it. Most people want a pill to take the pain away. >This is not a pill it is work.

I don’t think you realize that most of us in chronic pain would do ANYTHING to end the pain. Will power is not an issue. "Not many people want to work at it"? Do you think we like being in pain? Of course we are willing to work at it. Do you have arthritis? Do you know what it is like? >Have you tried any dietary restrictions to see if a food allergy could be >the cause?

Yes I have. I eat very little diary or red meat anyways because they irritate my stomach and cause diarrhea, I have better things to do then spend my life in the bathroom. I have also totally eleminated them for a while with no reductions in RA symptoms. It was not a major change in lifestyle since it is not a large part of my diet to begin with. I have eliminated night shades with the same result. I have kept a food journal to observe for any trigger foods. Other than a slight increase in symptoms when I eat a lot of potatoes, I don’t appear to have any food triggers. *I* cannot control my pain, at least not with diet. And I don’t appreciate the insinuation that I lack the will power or the desire to help myself. ~Krissy Akron, Ohio Visit my web pages at: http://arthritisnet.com http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/RA.html Coming to a computer near you on Nov. 12: http://www.arthritiswebsite.com

Response:

Good news for Rheumatoid arthritis suffers. There is a way that YOU can control the amount of suffering you experience. It may be one of the hardest things you ever do. Give up dairy products! Dairy means from the cow. Only food that comes from the cow. Beef is also a source of allergy for arthritis suffers. Under the good advice from my friends brother, she did one of the hardest things she ever did, she gave up dairy products. The doctors told her the only role food plays is to prevent to many pounds from going on, because they are just harder to carry around. Her brothers advice was right. The role food played was an allergic reaction in her body that caused her Rheumatoid arthritis. She is COMPLETELY pain free now. Unless she gets sloppy and starts eating dairy again. Then she is in pain for several days to several weeks. Again I will also say that too much beef causes pain also. When she first woke up that morning and couldn’t get out of bed, she knew something was wrong. Yes Rheumatoid arthritis was diagnosed. Being in the first stages of it her brother, who’s favorite pastime is studying medical things, suggested she give up dairy. He thought about how the arthritis ran in the family and how the entire family loved dairy. Ice cream and wonderful creamy dinners were the favorite foods. A food allergy was suggested by her brother as it is a highly allergic food and considered not a good food by the alternative medical people. Most health advocates advise removing dairy from your diet. Thinking this was an easy thing to do she set out about doing it. She failed immediately and decided to not eat "that much" dairy. She, of course, was still in plenty of pain. Having to make a decision about her next source of treatment, anti-inflammatories that ruin your stomach or a dairy free diet, she decided she was in enough pain to try the diet. NOT AN EASY TASK. Dairy is in almost everything we eat. It has many hidden names such as whey, lactose and others. The first few months were very difficult and little relief was noticed. As the months passed she became free of pain. Every so often she would be pain stricken again and wonder what was happening. Yes she had inadvertently eaten dairy. She thought it was oil but it was butter. Time proved that the pain would go away if she got back to a non dairy diet. When she had only 3% of the pain in her foot left, she approached her brother again and that’s when he suggested giving up the beef. That got rid of the rest of the pain. She can occasionally have beef, but it can not become part of her normal diet. She can slip up now without pain, unless she gets sloppy, then the pain comes back. When someone suggested to another sufferer that they try this, she responded that she noticed her psoriasis acted up when she ate cheese. She was about to loose her job and life so she took the challenge. She continued under a doctors care and weaned off the anti-inflammatories as she became pain free. This girl noticed the results when she licked the spoon when making macaroni and cheese, and her hands blew up. She then knew this is an allergic reaction. The day her boyfriend congratulated her on running up the steps of the apartment she then knew she had succeeded. Again she discovered that when the pain comes back it is because of sloppy eating habits. The next example is of a man who was in a deli. My friends brother saw the pain and heard him complain of Rheumatoid arthritis. He told the man what his theory was and left the man to make his own decision. Several months later the man saw him again and hugged him saying "you saved my life." His arthritis was under control. This article is used to tell of the good news of the possibility of becoming pain free from Rheumatoid arthritis. It is up to you and you alone if you want to try this. It is a life change and not a pill that you can take to make the pain go away. It is HARD to do. It takes time to see results, don’t get discouraged. It you become pain free then have pain again, review your diet. You’ll probably see that dairy has crept in again somewhere and that is what is causing the pain. This was a prayer answered. Good luck!

Response: