Question:

>http://www.arthritis.co.za/psoriasis.html/

which fails, and then: >http://www.arthritis.co.za/psoriasis.html

which doesn’t. Note the slash on the end of the first one.  That’s the problem.  Browsers and servers would be expecting to find a page named something like www.arthritis.co.za/psoriasis.html/index.htm in reponse to that request. Just a typo. – Dave W. http://psorsite.com/

Response:

>> This link will give you lots more details about psoriatic arthritis, who >gets > it, how it is diagnosed, treated, etc: > http://www.arthritis.co.za/psoriasis.html/ <snip> >i tried your first link but i got a error….thanks for the info. >jamie >

Question:

> FDA Approves Biogen Psoriasis Drug > .c The Associated Press > CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) – Biogen, Inc. said Friday that the Food and Drug > Administration had approved its drug Amevive, used to treat moderate and severe > cases of the skin disorder psoriasis.

[snip] Thank you — JDShine

Response:

>Biogen, Inc. said Friday that the Food and Drug >Administration had approved its drug Amevive, used to treat moderate and severe >cases of the skin disorder psoriasis.

thanks for the info I sent it on to a friend.  What have you heard about amevive from the clinical trials? How effective is it?   Is it anti-tnf. — MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

>thanks for the info I sent it on to a friend.  What have you heard >about amevive from the clinical trials? How effective is it?   Is it >anti-tnf. — MZ

If you post questions in alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis, there are several participants in the trials who post there.  Sounds equally as impressive for psoriasis as the biologics have been around here for various forms of arthritis. The company website has just been set up and is just about complete now (wasn’t just a week ago ).  Try:  http://www.amevive.com/ Here is an excerpt from the website about the action of this biologic fusion protein: <<AMEVIVE

Question:

>I have a child with scalp P – we’ve been using polytar AF shampoo which >lists its top three ingredients as : 0.5% coal tar, pyrithione disulfide 1% >and salicylic acid 2% …  So it has both ingredients mentioned by Carole. >I would be very interested in people posting responses to Carole’s question >re: shampoos, because I don’t find this shampoo has been very effective. >Having said that, I’m wondering if that’s because we haven’t been as >"vigilent" as we should be in applying it – so my questions, following up >from Carole’s are: >1.  Which is the best shampoo/main ingredient that seems to work for scalp P

The problem is that there is no "best" as nothing works for everyone or the same for everyone. Most psoriasis shampoos are based upon either topical tar or salicylic acid, which are the only 2 OTC ingredients FDA approved to treat P. Nizoral helps some people. There are shampoos that include corticosteroids, although frankly I wouldn’t want to be rinsing them off over my eyes. Some people swear by tea tree oil based shampoos but they made my scalp P seriously worse. There are non shampoo treatments involving dovonex, anthralin, steroids. There are non-presciption ways to boost benefit, from shaving the hair to using a heavy oil moisturizer (one treatment called dermasmoothe involves steroids suspended in peanut oil). I had scalp P even as a kid and used to use something still available called Bakers P&S liquid overnight before applying the tar shampoo. You might get the same effect with just mineral oil. I use tar-based bath oils overnight on the scalp sometimes today when mine is bad. There are reports in the ng archives of people trying different other things that helped them but are not normally or even usually effective for P. You can search them at http://www.pinch.com/skin >2.  Can you recommend a specific brand (I’m in Canada so I hope I can access >the brand suggested)

Same as above about no best. I use poytar myself, although just plain without the sal acid and pyrithione. Lots of people use Tgel, which didn’t do much for me. Pentrax is well thought of and MGH217 at least used to make a shampoo that some liked. Someone else just posted about rotating among shampoos, which has long been considered a good idea. >3.  In applying – is there a constant in terms of regiment – ie this one >says twice a week – but is it best if I let it sit on her head for 10 >minutes, should I do two rinses, should it be applied daily or once a week!

The usual best regimen is to use it more often until the psoriasis is under control then taper off to a maintenance frequency. Which would likely mean daily or every other day, then backing off to once a week or less when you can. You DO want to leave it on for a while so it can absorb. Otherwise you’re just getting it on the hair rather than treating the scalp. When you say the polytar was ineffective and that you haven’t been very regular about it, if you’ve been using it semi-regularly for a while (month or more) and seeing no results, then there’s probably little point to just increasing the frequency – you probably need to try something else. Maybe tar doesn’t work for her, it doesn’t for everyone. If you’ve been seeing resutls, just not enough, then it’s probably worth increasing the frequency/regularity of it, maybe adding in something like moisturizing the scalp with oil overnight first to float off the scale and aid penetration. >4. Any homeopathic or health store alternatives out there?  I hate the idea >of constantly medicating my growing child – even via obsorptiont through the >skin.

Understandable. The problem is the YMMV factor. Probably the most commonly cited for the scalp is tea tree oil, even though I had problems. I’ve seen reports of people finding aloe based shampoos helpful. Some people find vitamin E helpful. Search the archives. FWIW, I think it makes better sense to find a medicated routine that works and use it very short term when things flare up, then try to find a gentler alternative for longer term maintenance. Most of the alternative stuff, when it does work, is usually slower than the traditional med stuff for initial clearing. >Please advise if you can – it seems to be getting much worse so any help or >advice would be very very much appreciated.

Kim The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at               http://www.psoriasisfaq.com but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a            newsgroup near you…

Response:

>Thanks for the heads up! >[snip] >Thanks again. I have p over 25% of my body. It looks like P, acts like >P and itches like P. Pretty sure it’s P lol

Glad I could help, in some small way.  Just let me reiterate that I think you should take your case to a dermatologist, anyway.  While I, too, am pretty sure it’s psoriasis by your description, I’m no expert, and would be remiss in my "duty" if I didn’t urge you to get a good diagnosis. Could be, for example, that the top layers of your scalp were, indeed, stripped by the tick shampoo, and a fungal infection decided to take the opportunity to move in and set up shop, providing symptoms which *look* on the outside, like psoriasis.  Standard psoriasis treatments might then be ineffective and a waste of your money. – Dave W. http://psorsite.com/

Response:

I have a child with scalp P – we’ve been using polytar AF shampoo which lists its top three ingredients as : 0.5% coal tar, pyrithione disulfide 1% and salicylic acid 2% …  So it has both ingredients mentioned by Carole. I would be very interested in people posting responses to Carole’s question re: shampoos, because I don’t find this shampoo has been very effective. Having said that, I’m wondering if that’s because we haven’t been as "vigilent" as we should be in applying it – so my questions, following up from Carole’s are: 1.  Which is the best shampoo/main ingredient that seems to work for scalp P 2.  Can you recommend a specific brand (I’m in Canada so I hope I can access the brand suggested) 3.  In applying – is there a constant in terms of regiment – ie this one says twice a week – but is it best if I let it sit on her head for 10 minutes, should I do two rinses, should it be applied daily or once a week! 4. Any homeopathic or health store alternatives out there?  I hate the idea of constantly medicating my growing child – even via obsorptiont through the skin. Please advise if you can – it seems to be getting much worse so any help or advice would be very very much appreciated. Kringle (aka Chris)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bit of background. I have never had scalp psoriasis (knock on wood) > but recently the kids came home with lice. My hair is EXTREMELY thick > (maybe that’s why I’ve never had p there-no room! lol) Although no > lice was detected by my husband I went ahead and treated to be on the > safe side (let’s just say he wasn’t the greatest nit picker lol). > Unfortunately the treatments stripped my scalp and now I have > noticible dandruff and I can feel raised patches on my scalp, I itch > and sometimes I’ll get a small scale (can’t see actual P like the rest > of my body but hubby did find the raised areas to be red) from > scratching. So, looks like the medication irritated my skin and P just > jumped on the opportunity. At the store I notice several brands of > shampoo to help p but I noticed two different active ingredients-coal > tar extract and salyic acid (sp?). Which one does better? I thought > salyic acid was used to help dry out oily skin (in facial cleansers, > etc) or am I off base? Thanks in advance!

Response:

> If you don’t have a lot of scaling, and it doesn’t sound like you do, then the > coal tar is probably what you want. > Coal tar treats psoriasis.  Salicylic acid is primarily used to get rid of dead > skin.

Thanks for the heads up! > This isn’t to say that some folks haven’t had a great response to salicylic > acid shampoos – a response that goes far beyond just the elimination of the > scales. > In short, you’re going to have to play around to figure out which one works > better for you.  Heck, you may need to play around to figure out which *brand* > works best for you. > Of course, you really should see a good dermatologist, and get this > professionally diagnosed.  It could be something completely different from > psoriasis, for which psoriasis treatments might even be contraindicated. > Doesn’t *sound* like it, but you never know. > – Dave W. > http://psorsite.com/

Thanks again. I have p over 25% of my body. It looks like P, acts like P and itches like P. Pretty sure it’s P lol

Response:

Bit of background. I have never had scalp psoriasis (knock on wood) but recently the kids came home with lice. My hair is EXTREMELY thick (maybe that’s why I’ve never had p there-no room! lol) Although no lice was detected by my husband I went ahead and treated to be on the safe side (let’s just say he wasn’t the greatest nit picker lol). Unfortunately the treatments stripped my scalp and now I have noticible dandruff and I can feel raised patches on my scalp, I itch and sometimes I’ll get a small scale (can’t see actual P like the rest of my body but hubby did find the raised areas to be red) from scratching. So, looks like the medication irritated my skin and P just jumped on the opportunity. At the store I notice several brands of shampoo to help p but I noticed two different active ingredients-coal tar extract and salyic acid (sp?). Which one does better? I thought salyic acid was used to help dry out oily skin (in facial cleansers, etc) or am I off base? Thanks in advance!

Response:

[snip] >At the store I notice several brands of >shampoo to help p but I noticed two different active ingredients-coal >tar extract and salyic acid (sp?). Which one does better? I thought >salyic acid was used to help dry out oily skin (in facial cleansers, >etc) or am I off base? Thanks in advance!

If you don’t have a lot of scaling, and it doesn’t sound like you do, then the coal tar is probably what you want. Coal tar treats psoriasis.  Salicylic acid is primarily used to get rid of dead skin. This isn’t to say that some folks haven’t had a great response to salicylic acid shampoos – a response that goes far beyond just the elimination of the scales. In short, you’re going to have to play around to figure out which one works better for you.  Heck, you may need to play around to figure out which *brand* works best for you. Of course, you really should see a good dermatologist, and get this professionally diagnosed.  It could be something completely different from psoriasis, for which psoriasis treatments might even be contraindicated. Doesn’t *sound* like it, but you never know. – Dave W. http://psorsite.com/

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >|| Lafiel wrote in a prior post in this thread: >|| I thought that the NPF (and others) published that the >|| more severe the psoriasis coverage, the greater the >|| statistical chance that you would contract psoriatic >|| arthritis? >| >| Nope. >Well, I remember reading long ago from the NPF either in >some literature or their website that those with severe >psoriasis had a greater chance of also having PA.  So, >it follows that if you can keep it from progressing to >severe status (coverage over xx percent of body as said >by NPF) then you would statistically be better off with >regards to having PA later on.

No, it doesn’t necessarily follow. First, worsening is not a given. Most people’s psoriasis never progresses beyond mild. While other people’s starts almost immediately at severe. I met a woman at last years’ P conference like that. Second, psoriasis is not something you can treat preventatively other than avoiding known triggers, and is known to have ebbs and flows with no apparent reason. So you can’t necessarily keep it from progressing to severe if you are predisposed that way. But probably the most important is that all that is reported is a correlation between severe P and PA. That’s not the same as a causality. There may well be something else in common -perhaps something in the gentic underpinnings- between those people whose P does go to severe and those people susceptible to developing PA. >| Not true so far as I know and pretty sure the NPF >| at least has never said any such thing. >Is true as far as I know.  

Sigh. What am I supposed to do, stick my tongue out in response? >A quote from the National Psoriasis Foundation: >  "Psoriasis covering more than 10 percent of the body >is considered severe. Extensive areas of skin may be >covered with psoriasis plaques or pustules, or >widespread erythrodermic psoriasis (as shown in the >photo to the left) can cause severe peeling of the skin. >People with severe psoriasis are more likely to develop >psoriatic arthritis."

Which was of course all I asked for – a reference. Thank you. Clearly I was wrong about the NPF, although their statement is not the same as you are saying. The NPF is just saying those with severe P are more likely to get PA, rather than the direct correlation between degree of severity and likeliness to get PA that you are making. In other words, if you have 10% coverage you are more likely than others statistically, but they do not say that 20% coverage makes you more likely than that person with 10%. While all they are doing anyway is noting a general correlation, not stating a causation. Thanks for the quote. The link to it is at http://www.psoriasis.org/b200.htm#severe_psoriasis if anyone else is curious. Best of luck dealing with your P and PA Kim The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at               http://pfaq.cjb.net but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a            newsgroup near you…

Response:

It could all go away next week and never come back, or not. I’ve had this thing for 40 years and there have been periods, sometimes 2 or 3 years, where I’ve been completely clear. Now it’s bad, total coverage. What I’ve learned over the yeas is it seems to improve if you can ignore it. Fiddlying around with Doctors & creams & herbs & theories doesn’t work. Good luck with it and my advice is (which you shouldn’t listen to ’cause it’s a crazy theory) is ignore it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have had P for nearly 6 months now, mainly on face with some on chest arms > and legs. Face looks pretty ordinary but I have no pain or itch with any of > it , just patches varying in color from pink to red. Patches are not raised > significantly and  i dont seem to be developing any new spots.  Have tried a > number of the usual treatments without any dramatic results, even had > methotrexate for 5 weeks but liver test came back bad and had to stop ( > ALT-100) if that means anything. Dr had now prescribed neotigason  but I am > thinking of not taking it.   at this stage it is really a cosmetic issue and > I dont think I should be putting my health at risk just to look good, in > fact according to the side effects list I could end having my hair fall out > , which wont look so good either. > is this likely to get worse? am I likely to  develop the pain and itching > that many of you unfortunately seem to suffer? Have people generally found > it gets worse with age? ( I am 42). is there value in trying to nip it in > the bud now? Fortunately cost isnt a big issue here in Aus as medical > benefits cover the bulk of the cost. > Terry

Response:

>> On a consistant basis, mine has gotten worse.  My doctor > said that it was because I did not treat it for a long > period.  I got to the point where applying the silly > ointments, etc was more trouble and time consuming than > was worth the small amount of help they did. >I thought that the NPF (and others) published that the >more severe the psoriasis coverage, the greater the >statistical chance that you would contract psoriatic >arthritis?

Nope. Not true so far as I know and pretty sure the NPF at least has never said any such thing. Don’t know about others. Can you provide a link? The only thing I know even remotely along these lines is that I heard a derm at an NPF sponsored event say that those with nail involvement were more likely statistically to get PA. Nothing even about that on a quick search of the NPF site now (may have been on the old site). >I have wondered about the physical mechanism underlying >the statistics.  Perhaps a greater number of lesions >means there is a greater chance that one of them will >contribute enough fungal spores into your bloodstream >that will float around and infect something else such >as the lining next to the cartilage….

Why would you think that this might be the case? Psoriasis is not a fungus and so it would not contribute fungal spores, although you can have both. As well say that opening your mouth to eat could have the same results, I’d think. While PA is not a fungus either and so would not be caused by this sort of think happening in any event. >As guesses go, I had been assuming that until I can >find a better guess that will successfully replace it >in my quest for understanding and avoiding as many >risks of getting PA as possible.

It’s a genetic predisposition, as with psoriasis, so I’m not so sure you can avoid it in this way. Kim The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at               http://pfaq.cjb.net but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a            newsgroup near you…

Response:

|| Lafiel wrote in a prior post in this thread: ||| On a consistant basis, mine has gotten worse. My doctor ||| said that it was because I did not treat it for a long ||| period.  I got to the point where applying the silly ||| ointments, etc was more trouble and time consuming than ||| was worth the small amount of help they did. || || I thought that the NPF (and others) published that the || more severe the psoriasis coverage, the greater the || statistical chance that you would contract psoriatic || arthritis? | | Nope. Well, I remember reading long ago from the NPF either in some literature or their website that those with severe psoriasis had a greater chance of also having PA.  So, it follows that if you can keep it from progressing to severe status (coverage over xx percent of body as said by NPF) then you would statistically be better off with regards to having PA later on. | Not true so far as I know and pretty sure the NPF | at least has never said any such thing. Is true as far as I know.   A quote from the National Psoriasis Foundation:   "Psoriasis covering more than 10 percent of the body is considered severe. Extensive areas of skin may be covered with psoriasis plaques or pustules, or widespread erythrodermic psoriasis (as shown in the photo to the left) can cause severe peeling of the skin. People with severe psoriasis are more likely to develop psoriatic arthritis." | Don’t know about others. Can you provide a link? I hadn’t saved the links; I tend to save tidbits of info in order to help direct my own treatment.   I know that I had read similar statements elsewhere at other sites and/or literature.  It is not my interest to argue or find some reason why someone is wrong, just as it is not my interest to sit passively and wait for someone to tell me an answer.  I try to think about the facts that I know, add to it discussions with derms, and temper it with my own experience and observations. I’ve also talked with two doctors who have medical interests in psoriasis (derm) and they are independently both of the same opinion that the statistical chance of having PA correllates with more severe psoriasis (represented as coverage on the body).  It was a bit awkward getting doctors to talk about prognosis, as they seem to not want to say anything that would make me feel "discouraged" or depressed in any way, and so it took a bit of work to get the doctors to open up about some things like that or speculate as to what vectors trigged new psoriasis lesions in my case. I and they know it was speculation, but I had pointed out that I wanted to know a little more so that I was able to take advantage of any degrees of freedom not constrained by my current psoriasis treatments in order to experiment and try to develop new data and information about my own psoriasis condition.  They could understand that viewpoint and certainly knew that I had a research and development engineering background to help me along. I try not to have wishful thinking or denial about PA. I don’t want to be tempted to slack off or to find a convenient excuse to not go through the laboriousness of the treatments and topicals.  There is that other classic cliche of the "ostrich head in the sand" trick which I do not use.  If you don’t see the problem, or deny it, then there is no problem.  Well, I am not a fan of this ostrich technique as cute as it is to see an ostrich. That is why I don’t slack off on treatment because I don’t want my psoriasis to slide more into the severe 10% or greater end as described by the NPF. It is tempting to slack off.  I can hear that naysaying voice in the background saying that severity has no influence in whether or not you get PA.  But from my own experience in other disciplines, I can draw many parallels where severity does increase the chance of something else bad happening.  In this case, the more severe the psoriasis I have, the greater statistical chance that I have of getting PA later on.  But for now, I refuse to listen to naysayers as I will try my darndest to move out of the severe range.  Besides, the NPF, other websites, and two doctors treating me seem to agree on the statistics. Certainly, it is no guarantee that PA will occur, but if I can help it, I will try to be statistically least likely as I can. Lafiel

Response:

Terry: As you’ve seen so far, every person seems to have some variances to thid disease.  It seems there are several categories, each on opposite ends of the spectrum.  What I can tell you from me is I’ve had periods where it was worse and periods where it was good.  It seems it depends on what you’ve got going on in your life (stressors), diff. treatments you are trying, etc. On a consistant basis, mine has gotten worse.  My doctor said that it was because I did not treat it for a long period.  I got to the point where applying the silly ointments, etc was more trouble and time consuming than was worth the small amount of help they did.  What I’ve found that works best for me is, as I stated elsewhere here, bathing with baby oil or applying it after the shower and then immediately following with a good lotion, switching soaps (I switched to dove unscented…I used Cetaphil for a while on my face)  I use gloves when cleaning.  Consistently, sun exposure, salt water and several trips to the beach , and uncovering the skin. Again, I’ll state that my dr. said that had I consistently used treatments on the psoriasis, there’s a good CHANCE, I would not have come down with PA. If there’s any truth to that, I don’t know, but leaving the condition unchecked, according to the MD is not a good option. I agree with the other person who stated Neoral may be a better option for you to try.  My doc started me on the most simple, most probable drugs and worked our way up.  Right now I take a mixture of cyclosporin, methotrexate (only 3ml b/c it upset my system) and depo-medrol shots.  He is doing a trial with me right now.  I didn’t notice a huge difference right away with the neoral so he said he wanted to take me off of the Neoral when spring came IF…I would promise to get in the sun as much as possible.  After being off the drug for about 3-5 weeks, the P and PA came back stronger than before.  I started getting in the sun more and it is helping keep the P at bay.  I’m not sure about the PA. I saw someone else posted about getting a flare in the fall.  I do too, and can almost predict what kind of winter we’re going to have.  On a consistant basis, if my P gets bad in September, we have a bad winter.  Otherwise, it’s usually december or january when it’s at it’s worse.  The few years I tanned year-round (tanning bed in winter) my winter flare was about 75% better than years prior. Sorry so lengthy…I tend to ramble, but though I’m not an MD, my experience would tell you to keep it at a check, but use your common sense on the prescrip. meds.  Does the rist outweigh the benefit?  Is the P painful (mental or physical) to the point your life is affected?  Ask your doctor if there is some other treatment he would recommend before trying the drug you’re afraid of and get his opinion if this is really the best treatment. Some docs don’t like you to question their opinion.  My doc always listens to me.  Someone had suggested I ask him about trying sulfameth–(sp?)…don’t know the spelling but I asked him about it and he looked back in my file and explained why he didn’t think that would be a good choice for me, as my p and pa seems to be very stubborn. Hope this helps. Jill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have had P for nearly 6 months now, mainly on face with some on chest arms > and legs. Face looks pretty ordinary but I have no pain or itch with any of > it , just patches varying in color from pink to red. Patches are not raised > significantly and  i dont seem to be developing any new spots.  Have tried a > number of the usual treatments without any dramatic results, even had > methotrexate for 5 weeks but liver test came back bad and had to stop ( > ALT-100) if that means anything. Dr had now prescribed neotigason  but I am > thinking of not taking it.   at this stage it is really a cosmetic issue and > I dont think I should be putting my health at risk just to look good, in > fact according to the side effects list I could end having my hair fall out > , which wont look so good either. > is this likely to get worse? am I likely to  develop the pain and itching > that many of you unfortunately seem to suffer? Have people generally found > it gets worse with age? ( I am 42). is there value in trying to nip it in > the bud now? Fortunately cost isnt a big issue here in Aus as medical > benefits cover the bulk of the cost. > Terry

Response:

> On a consistant basis, mine has gotten worse.  My doctor > said that it was because I did not treat it for a long > period.  I got to the point where applying the silly > ointments, etc was more trouble and time consuming than > was worth the small amount of help they did.

I thought that the NPF (and others) published that the more severe the psoriasis coverage, the greater the statistical chance that you would contract psoriatic arthritis? I have wondered about the physical mechanism underlying the statistics.  Perhaps a greater number of lesions means there is a greater chance that one of them will contribute enough fungal spores into your bloodstream that will float around and infect something else such as the lining next to the cartilage…. As guesses go, I had been assuming that until I can find a better guess that will successfully replace it in my quest for understanding and avoiding as many risks of getting PA as possible. Lafiel

Response:

>is this likely to get worse?

Big fat, maybe.   Mine started around age 35 and has slowly gotten worse over time. Your mileage may vary. There may be some value to treating it a bit more aggressively when it’s still new, but I don’t know if that’s what they teach in med school. If your case is not that severe, I’m surprised they’d suggest neotegison, which has the side-effects you’ve noticed.  I think you get extra points when it’s on your face.  Still, I’d think that in most cases Neoral would be tried first, that would be my impression (from studying my own options, none yet exercised). I’m still waiting for this new Amevive stuff, which to me sounds very promising.  Gonna be really expensive, though, if and when it gets approved for general use, which is guestimated at early next year for the US, no idea what that means for Oz. OTOH, sometimes it gets better with time.  I suppose you’re getting some UV light from sunshine, at least – unless you’re one of those where it makes your psoriasis worse instead of better.  There may be other options to try, I guess I’m saying. Best wishes, J.

Response:

No.  My psoriasis is less than it was 40 years ago when I first noticed it. I read a book (I cannot remember the title), it was 20/30 or so years ago about avoiding things like bread and advocating acidophilus, garlic etc). I hadn’t heard about a gluten free diet. I haven’t adhered to a strict diet over the years as I haven’t got the perseverance but found that non dairy acidophilus (if nothing else) certainly helped. I used to suffer a lot of stomach problems before so sorting those out might have led to less stress etc., which is also supposed to effect psoriasis. You are luckier than I as you have the internet at your disposal to search for information and there are people on this newsgroup who are very helpful. "Medscape" today sent me a link to abstracts on recent research on Psoriasis so the outlook is much more hopeful these days. If you are interested in the latest research try Medscape. It is free to join, to search and get newsletters. www.medscape.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have had P for nearly 6 months now, mainly on face with some on chest arms > and legs. Face looks pretty ordinary but I have no pain or itch with any of > it , just patches varying in color from pink to red. Patches are not raised > significantly and  i dont seem to be developing any new spots.  Have tried a > number of the usual treatments without any dramatic results, even had > methotrexate for 5 weeks but liver test came back bad and had to stop ( > ALT-100) if that means anything. Dr had now prescribed neotigason  but I am > thinking of not taking it.   at this stage it is really a cosmetic issue and > I dont think I should be putting my health at risk just to look good, in > fact according to the side effects list I could end having my hair fall out > , which wont look so good either. > is this likely to get worse? am I likely to  develop the pain and itching > that many of you unfortunately seem to suffer? Have people generally found > it gets worse with age? ( I am 42). is there value in trying to nip it in > the bud now? Fortunately cost isnt a big issue here in Aus as medical > benefits cover the bulk of the cost. > Terry

— Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Are you familiar with the common abbreviation YMMV? (Your mileage may vary) That about sums it up. No one can predict whether yours will get worse or not. I have read that with many people there are no symptoms at all until they are in their forties. I am sixty-two and I can tell you that mine gets better in early spring and through much of the summer. When the days start shorten it gets worse again. I have had P all of my life, but it did get worse when I was in my mid forties. At age 53 I got so fed up with the constant itching, pealing and weeping on my scalp that I shaved my head and have kept it that way ever since. My entire scalp was covered with P. Over 90% of it cleared within just a few weeks. Exposure to the sunlight and using my UVB cabinet helps more when combined with the topical meds that I use. I use Dovonex, Desowen and Olux Foam on the plaques in different areas. Sometimes they are very effective and others don’t seem to help at all. All I can add is good luck and try your best to keep a positive attitude. Chuck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have had P for nearly 6 months now, mainly on face with some on chest arms > and legs. Face looks pretty ordinary but I have no pain or itch with any of > it , just patches varying in color from pink to red. Patches are not raised > significantly and  i dont seem to be developing any new spots.  Have tried a > number of the usual treatments without any dramatic results, even had > methotrexate for 5 weeks but liver test came back bad and had to stop ( > ALT-100) if that means anything. Dr had now prescribed neotigason  but I am > thinking of not taking it.   at this stage it is really a cosmetic issue and > I dont think I should be putting my health at risk just to look good, in > fact according to the side effects list I could end having my hair fall out > , which wont look so good either. > is this likely to get worse? am I likely to  develop the pain and itching > that many of you unfortunately seem to suffer? Have people generally found > it gets worse with age? ( I am 42). is there value in trying to nip it in > the bud now? Fortunately cost isnt a big issue here in Aus as medical > benefits cover the bulk of the cost. > Terry

Response:

I have had P for nearly 6 months now, mainly on face with some on chest arms and legs. Face looks pretty ordinary but I have no pain or itch with any of it , just patches varying in color from pink to red. Patches are not raised significantly and  i dont seem to be developing any new spots.  Have tried a number of the usual treatments without any dramatic results, even had methotrexate for 5 weeks but liver test came back bad and had to stop ( ALT-100) if that means anything. Dr had now prescribed neotigason  but I am thinking of not taking it.   at this stage it is really a cosmetic issue and I dont think I should be putting my health at risk just to look good, in fact according to the side effects list I could end having my hair fall out , which wont look so good either. is this likely to get worse? am I likely to  develop the pain and itching that many of you unfortunately seem to suffer? Have people generally found it gets worse with age? ( I am 42). is there value in trying to nip it in the bud now? Fortunately cost isnt a big issue here in Aus as medical benefits cover the bulk of the cost. Terry

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Question:

Thanks for the welcome. No I wouldn’t invest at this point – at least not until the price stabilizes.  It has pretty much dropped in half, and the volume has really slowed down the last two days.  It could easily drop by another 20-25% unless they announce some verification of their trials in Venezuela. Mark By the way -Off topic – has anyone ever related any concern about antibiotic use and the onset of P? M

Response:

In some languages there are no other words that describe "half a cure". — Regards Gil Teva 20 Mekor Haim street Jerusalem 93465 Israel Tel: +972 2 6724273 Mobile: +972-54-948642

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> > Have you made much $$$ from stockscapes leads? > Oh, an absolute fortune! Not! I subscribe to these things more for their > humour content than for the commercial possibilities. > Graham > Have been lurking for sometime and really enjoy and appreciate how > helpful everyone is here.  I do a lot of stock watching and I know a > little bit about this company.

Welcome to the Group Mark. Would you invest based on this info? I haven’t watched the market machinations, in awhile. this sounds like a blue sky situation? Just to protect the hopefoolishly lemmings on board: >What is the difference between a stock that is listed as>NASDAQ

(national)  for example <XTON>>NASDAQ has certain requirements that a company must meet in order toget listed ….>and>>a stock that is listed as>NASDAQ (othcbb) for example <BIGG>If a stock does not meet Nasdaq (or NYSE) requirements (or hasn’tapplied for some reason) it’s considered an Over The Counter orBulletin Board stock.  These stocks don’t have any requirements as faras reporting, so often you know very little about them. For thisreason, they are inherently much riskier.>>and what exactly does BLUE SKYED mean??Blue Sky laws are the terms for a set of regulations that the SECimposes on any stock that wants to get *covered* by a broker in theU.S.  Meaning, among other things, that brokers can formally recommendthe stocks to their clients. Each state typically has different BlueSky laws, however about 35 of them have united under a commonapplication.  BIGG just recently was approved for these 35 states.Getting Blue Skyed gives a company some credibility and is also astepping stone to getting the NASDAQ listing.hope this helps.  Great questions, by the way. Lastly, many states have established rulesrequiring the approval of a security by a state security administrator forsecurities sold on the NASDAQ Small Cap Market and the OTCBB market. Theserules are referred to as ‘blue sky laws’ and the first modern state bluesky law was adopted in 1911 in Kansas. The term "blue sky" referred tospeculative schemes that, in the words of a judge of the period, had nomore substance than so many feet of "blue sky." The Kansas law served asthe nationwide model for state regulation of securities offerings and thelicensing of broker dealers and their agents. Check withhttp://www.nasaa.org/bluesky/ and call your State security administratorto determine whether a particular security is licensed for sale in yourstate. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& I googled astralis ltd and got 4 hits "  "      Skyepharma  and got  43 hits "   "     Psoraxine with astralis  4 hits. Some of the hits were from our p ng, no less. Yours included. I think a real company like corixa.com that is in some stage (  1  2 3 etc) that is on the nasdaq is a little less risky then a pink sheet over the counter stock that reversed into some other shell or name from the wild blue yonder. Of course you could flip a coin and trade commodities with a little less risk. You’ll lose it all only 90% of the time in this situation. BTW, i only googled the groups and not the web. As figures there lie a little deeper under the blue sea then up in the blue yonder. randall… having p and getting p fleeced would be p-pitifool. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The company which you have been talking about is ASTR OTCBB in the US. >  Here are  a couple of press release tidbits – sorry for the cut and > paste – the news service I subscribe to doesn’t allow links. Also note > that the stock came on the market in November at 3.20 per share and > closed today at 1.92 – it seems to be dropping with the rest of the > biotechs – the Nasdaq biotech index peaked in early Dec at 96 and > closed at just under 75 today  -  down 5.5 % today. > A couple of notes > Astralis LTD, an emerging biotechnology company based in New Jersey, > focuses on > the research and development of novel treatments for immune system > disorders and > skin diseases. Psoraxine, the company’s first product, is an > innovative drug > under development for psoriasis, and is based on the company’s > discovery of a > new gene sequence of proteins. To date, clinical data suggest > remission of this > skin condition in patient trials in Venezuela. > SkyePharma PLC, an established drug delivery company, based in the UK, > provides > innovative services to major pharmaceutical partners from the point of > drug > discovery through the approval process. Its five technologies, oral, > injectable, > inhalation, topical, and nanoparticulate solubilisation encompass the > vast > majority of delivery systems in use by the pharmaceutical industry. > For more > information, visit SkyePharma’s web site at http://www.skyepharma.com > . >  - Skye has a market cap of 330 million pounds.  They have some novel > drug delivery methods – and I wonder if they haven’t already tried out > this Psoraxine using their methods – they sure seem to have jumped > into this company. > FLORHAM PARK, N.J., Nov 13, 2001 (BUSINESS WIRE) — Hercules > Development Group > announced today the closing of its definitive merger agreement with > Astralis > LLC. > Simultaneously with the closing, Hercules completed an equity > financing which > raised $3.2 million to assist Astralis in the development, testing and > commercialization of Psoraxine, a drug which has brought about > clinical > remission of Psoriasis during clinical trails conducted in Venezuela. > LONDON, and FLORHAM PARK, N.J., Dec. 12 /PRNewswire — SkyePharma PLC > (Nasdaq: > SKYE; LSE: SKP) and Astralis LTD (OTC Bulletin Board: ASTR) announce > several > agreements concerning the formulation and development of Astralis’ > novel > injectable vaccine therapy, Psoraxine(TM), for the treatment of all > forms of > psoriasis, a chronic skin disorder that affects approximately 3% of > the world > population. > In a separate transaction, SkyePharma will make a total equity > investment in > Astralis of up to US$20 million in convertible preferred shares, on > payment for > which SkyePharma will own 15.3% of Astralis. SkyePharma will make an > initial > investment of US$10 million on signature of the agreement. The > remaining US$10 > million investment will be paid at times and in quantities, amongst > other > conditions, dependent on the date of filing the US IND, up to January > 31, 2003. > Astralis has completed clinical studies in Venezuela using first > generation > Psoraxine to treat 3,000 psoriasis patients, the majority of whom > responded > positively with few side effects. Of the 3,000 treated patients, 638 > achieved > complete remission, whilst nearly half of all patients experienced a > reduction > in disease of between 70% and 90%, as measured by the Psoriasis Area > and > Severity Index (PASI), a validated outcomes measure. Overall, 96% of > the > patients had a positive response to Psoraxine, although these results > have not > yet been independently verified. > Professor James Leyden, a Board member of the American Academy of > Dermatology > and past chairman of the Dermatology Foundation, said, "I have had the > opportunity to review the data generated in Venezuela, and was very > encouraged > by the results. I believe Psoraxine could be an exciting new treatment > alternative for many of the world’s psoriasis sufferers. We look > forward to > becoming an integral part of the ongoing clinical program." > Hope this answers your questions. > Mark

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Maddie, My psychotherapist tells me that there is nothing wrong with a little paranoia. I tend to agree with her. Graham

Response:

> Being paranoid it seems to me that "they" have no interest in curing us > because we are too valuable as consumers of their so called "treatments".

Hi, Graham and Maddie. So, it is obviously to provocative to be real. My best guess is another stock hype to finance some smart operator. Are these smallcaps on the bulletin boards or 100M caps? Or do they even mention pink sheet scam-O-La’s? Have you made much $$$ from stockscapes leads? Maybe these small guys with miracle p help read evetsm’s pubmed in-cite-full syndrome X page and figured it all out. Or, they reversed the chirality of omega 6’s as a result of Mikes1111 and JR’s mysterious borage and primrose cure and have a "miracle" drug that only costs $99.99/week. Of course hope springs eternal. Keep us posted. randall..BTW what is your Hoover index these days G????? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I subscribe to an investment newsletter called SmallCap from Stockscape. > Last week, the newsletter arrived containing the following article: > a.. Over 180 million people worldwide suffer from Psoriasis > a.. Currently, there is no FDA approved cure for Psoriasis, an often > traumatizing and disabilitating skin disease > a.. At present, Goldman Sachs values the US market for Psoriasis treatment > at over $2 Billion annually > In 24 Hours – A Spectacular New Drug Discovery Gives Hope to Millions > Would you invest in a Company developing a drug that has achieved clinical > remission of a disease affecting over 7 million Americans and an estimated > 180 million people around the world? > Would you be interested to know that this Company has already developed a > strategic relationship with a major London-based pharmaceutical company, > resulting in a recent equity investment of US $20 million? > Keep watching your inbox! At this time tomorrow, SmallCap Central will >  send > you a profile on a most compelling investment opportunity. Once this drug >  is > developed and deployed, it will belong to a $2 billion dollar US market, >  as > reported by Goldman Sachs, and a multi-billion dollar market worldwide! > To learn the name of this Company, and to find out details of this major > medical breakthrough, watch for tomorrow’s email from SmallCap Central. > You can imagine how this caught my interest. Well the promised next days > email never arrived and email to Stockscap have revealed nothing but > silence. Does anyone know about this? > Graham > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Have you made much $$$ from stockscapes leads? Oh, an absolute fortune! Not! I subscribe to these things more for their humour content than for the commercial possibilities. Graham

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> Have you made much $$$ from stockscapes leads? > Oh, an absolute fortune! Not! I subscribe to these things more for their > humour content than for the commercial possibilities. > Graham

Hi, Ok.. i know you like funny ha ha’s. You did give us this. I don’t know if anyone has seen this site, but it provides an insight into the various "personalities" found on most newsgroups. Profoundus Maximus, Netiquette Nazi, Cyber Sisters, Peacemaker etc. Each description in accompanied by an amusing cartoon. http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html And so many found the mirror to be un-beer-able to face the P shone from this reflective site. Did you reek humor or havoc? As the yucks are as hard to come by as the bucks, please keep us appraised of the p possible cure for both applications. randall.. stock scam or more blue sky for wanna be cureds?

Response:

> Have you made much $$$ from stockscapes leads? > Oh, an absolute fortune! Not! I subscribe to these things more for their > humour content than for the commercial possibilities. > Graham

Have been lurking for sometime and really enjoy and appreciate how helpful everyone is here.  I do a lot of stock watching and I know a little bit about this company. The company which you have been talking about is ASTR OTCBB in the US.  Here are  a couple of press release tidbits – sorry for the cut and paste – the news service I subscribe to doesn’t allow links. Also note that the stock came on the market in November at 3.20 per share and closed today at 1.92 – it seems to be dropping with the rest of the biotechs – the Nasdaq biotech index peaked in early Dec at 96 and closed at just under 75 today  -  down 5.5 % today. A couple of notes Astralis LTD, an emerging biotechnology company based in New Jersey, focuses on the research and development of novel treatments for immune system disorders and skin diseases. Psoraxine, the company’s first product, is an innovative drug under development for psoriasis, and is based on the company’s discovery of a new gene sequence of proteins. To date, clinical data suggest remission of this skin condition in patient trials in Venezuela. SkyePharma PLC, an established drug delivery company, based in the UK, provides innovative services to major pharmaceutical partners from the point of drug discovery through the approval process. Its five technologies, oral, injectable, inhalation, topical, and nanoparticulate solubilisation encompass the vast majority of delivery systems in use by the pharmaceutical industry. For more information, visit SkyePharma’s web site at http://www.skyepharma.com .  - Skye has a market cap of 330 million pounds.  They have some novel drug delivery methods – and I wonder if they haven’t already tried out this Psoraxine using their methods – they sure seem to have jumped into this company. FLORHAM PARK, N.J., Nov 13, 2001 (BUSINESS WIRE) — Hercules Development Group announced today the closing of its definitive merger agreement with Astralis LLC. Simultaneously with the closing, Hercules completed an equity financing which raised $3.2 million to assist Astralis in the development, testing and commercialization of Psoraxine, a drug which has brought about clinical remission of Psoriasis during clinical trails conducted in Venezuela. LONDON, and FLORHAM PARK, N.J., Dec. 12 /PRNewswire — SkyePharma PLC (Nasdaq: SKYE; LSE: SKP) and Astralis LTD (OTC Bulletin Board: ASTR) announce several agreements concerning the formulation and development of Astralis’ novel injectable vaccine therapy, Psoraxine(TM), for the treatment of all forms of psoriasis, a chronic skin disorder that affects approximately 3% of the world population. In a separate transaction, SkyePharma will make a total equity investment in Astralis of up to US$20 million in convertible preferred shares, on payment for which SkyePharma will own 15.3% of Astralis. SkyePharma will make an initial investment of US$10 million on signature of the agreement. The remaining US$10 million investment will be paid at times and in quantities, amongst other conditions, dependent on the date of filing the US IND, up to January 31, 2003. Astralis has completed clinical studies in Venezuela using first generation Psoraxine to treat 3,000 psoriasis patients, the majority of whom responded positively with few side effects. Of the 3,000 treated patients, 638 achieved complete remission, whilst nearly half of all patients experienced a reduction in disease of between 70% and 90%, as measured by the Psoriasis Area and Severity Index (PASI), a validated outcomes measure. Overall, 96% of the patients had a positive response to Psoraxine, although these results have not yet been independently verified. Professor James Leyden, a Board member of the American Academy of Dermatology and past chairman of the Dermatology Foundation, said, "I have had the opportunity to review the data generated in Venezuela, and was very encouraged by the results. I believe Psoraxine could be an exciting new treatment alternative for many of the world’s psoriasis sufferers. We look forward to becoming an integral part of the ongoing clinical program." Hope this answers your questions. Mark

Response:

I subscribe to an investment newsletter called SmallCap from Stockscape. Last week, the newsletter arrived containing the following article: a.. Over 180 million people worldwide suffer from Psoriasis a.. Currently, there is no FDA approved cure for Psoriasis, an often traumatizing and disabilitating skin disease a.. At present, Goldman Sachs values the US market for Psoriasis treatment at over $2 Billion annually In 24 Hours – A Spectacular New Drug Discovery Gives Hope to Millions Would you invest in a Company developing a drug that has achieved clinical remission of a disease affecting over 7 million Americans and an estimated 180 million people around the world? Would you be interested to know that this Company has already developed a strategic relationship with a major London-based pharmaceutical company, resulting in a recent equity investment of US $20 million? Keep watching your inbox! At this time tomorrow, SmallCap Central will send you a profile on a most compelling investment opportunity. Once this drug is developed and deployed, it will belong to a $2 billion dollar US market, as reported by Goldman Sachs, and a multi-billion dollar market worldwide! To learn the name of this Company, and to find out details of this major medical breakthrough, watch for tomorrow’s email from SmallCap Central. You can imagine how this caught my interest. Well the promised next days email never arrived and email to Stockscap have revealed nothing but silence. Does anyone know about this? Graham

Response:

Being paranoid it seems to me that "they" have no interest in curing us because we are too valuable as consumers of their so called "treatments". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I subscribe to an investment newsletter called SmallCap from Stockscape. > Last week, the newsletter arrived containing the following article: > a.. Over 180 million people worldwide suffer from Psoriasis > a.. Currently, there is no FDA approved cure for Psoriasis, an often > traumatizing and disabilitating skin disease > a.. At present, Goldman Sachs values the US market for Psoriasis treatment > at over $2 Billion annually > In 24 Hours – A Spectacular New Drug Discovery Gives Hope to Millions > Would you invest in a Company developing a drug that has achieved clinical > remission of a disease affecting over 7 million Americans and an estimated > 180 million people around the world? > Would you be interested to know that this Company has already developed a > strategic relationship with a major London-based pharmaceutical company, > resulting in a recent equity investment of US $20 million? > Keep watching your inbox! At this time tomorrow, SmallCap Central will send > you a profile on a most compelling investment opportunity. Once this drug is > developed and deployed, it will belong to a $2 billion dollar US market, as > reported by Goldman Sachs, and a multi-billion dollar market worldwide! > To learn the name of this Company, and to find out details of this major > medical breakthrough, watch for tomorrow’s email from SmallCap Central. > You can imagine how this caught my interest. Well the promised next days > email never arrived and email to Stockscap have revealed nothing but > silence. Does anyone know about this? > Graham

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

True, I think the word "cure" is incorrectly used in the release (as it generally is).  I never expect a "cure", but I would like a tretment that works well. Robb

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Being paranoid it seems to me that "they" have no interest in curing us > because we are too valuable as consumers of their so called "treatments". > I subscribe to an investment newsletter called SmallCap from Stockscape. > Last week, the newsletter arrived containing the following article: > a.. Over 180 million people worldwide suffer from Psoriasis > a.. Currently, there is no FDA approved cure for Psoriasis, an often > traumatizing and disabilitating skin disease > a.. At present, Goldman Sachs values the US market for Psoriasis treatment > at over $2 Billion annually > In 24 Hours – A Spectacular New Drug Discovery Gives Hope to Millions > Would you invest in a Company developing a drug that has achieved clinical > remission of a disease affecting over 7 million Americans and an estimated > 180 million people around the world? > Would you be interested to know that this Company has already developed a > strategic relationship with a major London-based pharmaceutical company, > resulting in a recent equity investment of US $20 million? > Keep watching your inbox! At this time tomorrow, SmallCap Central will > send > you a profile on a most compelling investment opportunity. Once this drug > is > developed and deployed, it will belong to a $2 billion dollar US market, > as > reported by Goldman Sachs, and a multi-billion dollar market worldwide! > To learn the name of this Company, and to find out details of this major > medical breakthrough, watch for tomorrow’s email from SmallCap Central. > You can imagine how this caught my interest. Well the promised next days > email never arrived and email to Stockscap have revealed nothing but > silence. Does anyone know about this? > Graham > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Question:

I don’t remember the details, but there is at least one drug in testing for rheumatoid arthritis that is a p53 inhibitor.  (sorry, don’t remember which one… something not out yet though, that I remember) Maybe Scios?  Think that was the company… not looking it up, but I am a TINY stockholder in this company, so I don’t want to hide this fact from anyone.  (I decided to buy on the first day the market opened after Sep 11, think it was the 14th, just for my little bit of patriotism.) Best regards, Check out our website too–do you love oak furniture? http://www.barnfurniture.com  

Response:

> By Justin Gillis > Washington Post Staff Writer > Thursday, January 3, 2002; Page A01 > snip

so i googled our p ng for P53 and got 24 or so hits.. mostly Ed anderson of pinch.com Surely or sore-ly a man ahead of his P. Ok,  taste of p53 from 1996..

" Has anyone heard of a treatment where they burn psoriasis lesions to " control them? There is a recent patent for the use of an infrared laser in psoriasis treatment but I doubt it is used to actually burn the skin. Ultraviolet phototherapy causes a sun"burn" but your post implies third degree.  Just about anything that damages the skin can trigger a psoriasis lesion and my guess is that cauterizing the skin would cause more problems than it solves. I’ve been doing a bit of reading about a cell protein called p53 that is stimulated by UV radiation. P53 causes cells to slow their reproduction rate by binding to trascription sites with the apparent purpose of allowing cells more time to repair potential DNA damage.  Sufficent p53 protein can cause the cell to cease replicating, causing cell death or aptosis. This is the way that the skin prevents mutations from sunlight. I believe this is also the mechanism that allows UV phototherapy to work as a psoriasis treatment. It appears that many things that cause cell stress also increase p53 production.  Besides ionizing radiation and other mutagens, two stong triggers (in lab culture tests) are hypoxia and hyperthermia. Hypoxia (lack of oxygen) might account for the success of occlusion. It is usually used in combination with other therapy but it makes sense that increased p53 production from various causes is additive. A MEDLINE search for hyperthemia and psoriasis turns up a couple of reports of complete psoriasis remission using thermal treatments.  One treatment used biofeedback techniques to elevate skin temperature and claimed remission of recalcitrant psoriasis after 6 months of therapy. Another report says psoriasis lesions were resolved in six of seven patients using simple hot water baths.  They also noted an unexpected side effect of increased tanning when hyperthermia treated skin was exposed to sunlight.  Hypoxia might also play a role in the success of water baths. There are no MEDLINE reports of infrared psoriasis treatments but given the success of hyperthermia treatments, a pulsed heat source might be able to create a hyperthermia stress in the skin without raising the body temperature more than necessary.  A laser might work well for this but it doesn’t sound very cost effective. Stop the presses… I’ve just found a MEDLINE report of an experimental laser ablation treatment in the UK. It might be the "burn" therapy you’re looking for: Title:        Laser treatment of psoriasis. Author:       Katugampola GA; Rees AM; Lanigan SW Address:      Department of Dermatology, Bridgend General Hospital,               Mid Glamorgan, U.K. Source:       Br J Dermatol, 133: 6, 1995 Dec, 909-13 MEDLINE ID:   96150401 Abstract:        In psoriasis, the earliest observable electron microscopic changes are in the dermal papillary vasculature. The flashlamp-pumped pulsed tunable dye laser can achieve selective photothermolysis of the dermal vasculature. This laser was used to treat eight patients with chronic plaque psoriasis, as it was hypothesized that the ablation of dermal papillary vasculature would arrest the early events leading to the evolution of psoriasis, and produce resolution of the plaques. At the final assessment, performed 10 weeks after three fortnightly laser treatments, five of the eight patients recorded an improvement of > or = 50%, and one showed complete resolution of the treated plaques of psoriasis. Although not practicable in the treatment of widespread psoriasis, we conclude that selective photothermolysis of the dermal vasculature by pulsed tunable dye laser offers an alternative new therapy for chronic plaque psoriasis, and also demonstrates the pivotal role of the vasculature in the pathogenesis of psoriasis. (ed note: Dye lasers operate in the red end of the visible spectrum.) This sounds like a rather extreme treatment, more like plastic surgery. I guess they really do "burn" the skin (off). — Ed Anderson One of the true hero’s of P consciousness. Maybe one day we can get his great words again.. randall… forget p53, i want to fly a p51.. and forget about P.

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By Justin Gillis Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, January 3, 2002; Page A01 A critical protein that protects animals from cancer in their early years appears, in later life, to cause much of the deterioration associated with aging, according to a provocative new study. The study suggests that the protein, known as p53 — a central cog in the cancer-fighting machinery of many animals, including humans — eventually shuts off the body’s ability to renew its organs and tissues, producing bone and muscle deterioration and other hallmarks of aging. The results, reported by scientists at the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, "raise the shocking possibility that aging may be a side effect of the natural safeguards that protect us from cancer," two commentators said in an editorial accompanying the study, which appears today in the journal Nature. The research was done in mice, and its applicability to people is uncertain. But mice and humans are close evolutionary relatives, and the study is likely to set off a race to clarify the relationship between cancer biology and aging in humans. Arnold Levine, president of Rockefeller University and co-discoverer of p53, called the study "extraordinary." Bert Vogelstein, a top cancer researcher at Johns Hopkins University, said the results were "fascinating" and "surprising." He added: "Like all good research, it raises a lot more questions than it answers." Among the questions is whether any attempt to create an anti-aging pill would be likely to raise cancer rates. The Nature commentary says scientists working on aging now have to consider the prospect that "drug-related approaches to interfere with this process may come at a price — the disruption of our natural mechanisms for keeping cancer at bay." The research also raises the possibility that younger people treated with chemotherapy may be subject to premature aging later in life, a question that has never been rigorously examined. The findings add weight to the developing hypothesis that the body has to walk a line between cancer protection and aging, that they are, in effect, two sides of a coin. "You have a fine balance," said Lawrence Donehower, the researcher whose laboratory conducted the study. "Too much p53 and you get this aging effect; too little and you get cancer. My guess is that evolution has selected just the right level." The new paper started with a failure in the lab, then turned into a classic tale of scientific luck and alertness. Eight years ago, in Donehower’s cancer lab at Baylor College of Medicine, researchers were trying to create mice with a weakened version of p53, a vital protein that prevents cells from growing out of control and turning into tumors. These mice might have been susceptible to tumors similar to those in human patients. But the techniques for manipulating genes were crude at the time, and instead of making mice with weakened p53, Donehower and colleagues accidentally made mice with a hyperactive version of the protein. They were exasperated. "We sort of set the mice off in a corner of our mouse colony and ignored them," Donehower said. Ordinary mice are prone to tumors, and the researchers noticed that virtually none of the mutant mice were getting them. That alone was not so surprising, because p53 is such an effective tumor suppressor. But as time went on, the tumor-free mice looked stranger and stranger. "I couldn’t quite figure out what it was until my lab technician, Ben Cooper, said the words, ‘These mice just look old,’ " Donehower recalled. "That was like a light bulb." A young graduate student, Stuart Tyner, grabbed the project as part of his doctoral thesis. "I felt like this was kind of a gold mine," he said. He subjected the mutant mice to tests that confirmed what was already becoming obvious to the naked eye: They were fading fast. At an age when normal mice are still fairly vigorous, the bones of the mutant mice became brittle and porous, and they developed hunchbacks. Their hair thinned. Their muscles and other body parts shrank. They recovered poorly from wounds and other stresses. They lost weight. Even though virtually none of them came down with cancers, they died, on average, at 96 weeks, compared with 118 weeks for normal mice. Their enhanced cancer resistance was accompanied, in other words, by a 20 percent drop in life span. "The major impact of the study is that it more tightly links tumor suppression and aging," Donehower said. "It really surprised us." By the standards of a protein, p53 was already the focus of intense research, and the new paper raises the possibility that it is a prime mechanism in two of the most important aspects of human biology. "I think the Donehower paper makes an enormous contribution," said Levine, the Rockefeller University president. "It’s not that everyone knows it’s right yet, or that there aren’t other lines of evidence that are important. But it’s conceptually extraordinary." Levine, who co-discovered p53 in 1979, compares the protein to the spell-check program in a computer. The machinery that copies genetic instructions inside cells is prone to error. The role of p53 is to help make sure the genetic instructions get copied accurately so the cells do not lurch out of control and turn into tumors. If things are going badly, p53 can stop the cell’s reproductive cycle until the damage is repaired. In the worst case, it can switch on an internal suicide program, forcing the cell to kill itself for the sake of the larger organism. The highly effective cancer "surveillance" of p53 is a major reason animals are not overwhelmed by tumors from a young age, instead living long enough to reproduce. The new work suggests, in effect, that this same protective machinery comes back to haunt the animal as it ages. Exactly how remains unclear, but the researchers speculate that it involves stem cells, the primordial cells that serve as feedstock to regenerate organs and tissues. Donehower’s data suggest that the normal level of p53 that protects against tumors eventually becomes a brake on stem cells, arresting their growth and depriving the body of its capacity for renewal. By this reasoning, having more p53 will mean fewer tumors in the early years — but, as the mice study suggests, at the price of premature aging, because stem cells will be shut down more rapidly and renewal capacity depleted earlier. Donehower’s results might seem counterintuitive at first, since cancer is largely a disease of the elderly. How could aging go hand-in-hand with a mechanism that protects against cancer? The Nature commentators suggest that this puzzle is easily resolved. Cancer results from the out-of-control growth of individual cells, and it typically occurs after they have accumulated enough genetic mutations over time to break down the normal protective machinery, including p53. Aging, by contrast, is a bodywide phenomenon, and the Donehower results suggest it arises at least in part because, as stem cells accumulate genetic mutations over time, still-functioning p53 shuts down their reproductive ability, just as it would in a nascent cancer cell. In this view, the aged body may suffer a cruel double assault, contracting cancer partly from the breakdown of p53 in individual cells at just the moment when active p53 in stem cells has depleted its reparative capacity. When in a given individual this happens may depend on natural genetic variation. A great deal of work remains to confirm Donehower’s findings, and the paper is likely to open new fields of inquiry. One immediate question is the effect in younger people of chemotherapy drugs, which attack cancer by deliberately damaging DNA, the genetic material. If these drugs activate p53 by causing genetic damage in healthy cells, could that eventually accelerate aging, even in patients who took the drugs decades ago? Finally, the work raises the question of whether it will ever be possible to manipulate aging. Even if the findings are verified, some scientists remain optimistic that there will be ways, late in life, to turn down p53 levels without causing undue harm, buying extra years of life. That’s far from certain, but knowledge can only help, Donehower said. "If we know why we age," he said, "it’s all the better in terms of developing anti-aging approaches." Hey all my favorite words… do you know which ones? Ci is one… And Baylor was the scene of the big P gene study, now at the NPF. randall… i see p people everywhere.. er, p-53 reduced people, that is.

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Question:

The first time I used valisone, I got a rebound effect and ended up using a light booth to get over it. It was the only flare I have ever had. However, it worked to clear my scalp, before the rebound. Then the scalp P came back in spades., plus other spots all over. Mind you I still only went to about 4% to 5% coverage during the flare. Still, the doctor would never prescribe steroids for me again. However, 10 years later, after he forgot, I convinced him to prescribe valisone again. I have been using it for several years. For me, it is only effective on the scalp and genitals, and newly forming plaques elsewhere that are just starting. I use if for a couple weeks on a spot, until it clears, and then for about a week afterwards to make sure. Then I stop using it. It has not lost it’s effectiveness for me. Unfortunately, it does not work on well established plaques not on the genitals or scalp, and it does not work under nails. I have never developed a resistance to coal tar. I have been using this for over thirty years. However, it does me no good on its own. I have to use it in conjunction with UVB to get any benefit. Anthralin was a disaster. It stained everything and didn’t do a darn thing for me. I hated it. I was prescribed it when the light booth had cleared up everything but a small spot on my elbow and a couple nails. The doctor said it should clear up the last bit. It didn’t. The P just came back to where it was before the flare. Tacrolimus, I have never used. Every time I have come close to being clear, or been the most clear, it has involved UVB, either from a booth, or the actual sun. The best treatment, that I have found, is Caribbean Sun and salt water. It is also the most fun. If you can also get into a sauna and/or a steam bath, followed by a shower, at the end of each day, this is good too. It not only seems to help with P, it also gets all the sun tan lotion and sweat off of you. A week in the Caribbean has done wonders for me on a couple of occasions. Two weeks would have been better. One week gets me almost clear. I think two weeks could do the whole job. (Sigh! One day) You have to swim in the ocean (do some snorkeling) and roast in the sun on the beach, every day, or you won’t benefit. Just being there is not going to help. So, if you do go, save the shopping, partying, and casino for the evening. Spend the midday on the beach and in the ocean. I don’t use sun block, until I begin to feel like I will start to burn if I wait any longer. Drink lots of green tea to help prevent skin cancer from the UVB. Eat plenty of seafood. I don’t know if it helps, but it is very enjoyable. I can taste the red snapper now! Cheers, Cruiser Hmmm…. I wonder if drinks with little umbrellas are good to treat psoriasis. Say waitress! I’ll have "sex on the beach", please. Ahhh! That’s better. Stress? What stress?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   I know there are only a few treatments for Psoriasis that work temporarily > (such as Anthralin, Coal Tar, Tacrolimus, Corticosteroids, etc)   but Im scared > to start anymore treatments for my Psoriasis because I fear I will build up an > immunity to the medications and then nothing will help get rid of a Psoriasis > outbreak anymore! >   In other words,  I’ve heard that Corticosteroids usually work for a few weeks > but the Psoriasis always comes back even worse!   And that corticosteroids can > only be used a few times (in genital areas) and they will no longer work + the > skin gets thin! >   So If If I used some other topical treatments (such as > Anthralin,Tacrolimus,Coal Tar, etc)  will my Psoriasis come back even worse > with these treatments also?   People say this happens with

Corticosteroids, but – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> what about these other topical treatments? >   My question is " Do all these treatments listed above, only work temporarily > and  they will no longer work for me in the future when I need them?   Im > scared  that if I use Anthralin now, that I will build up a tolerance to it in > the future, then what will I do when it no longer works?

Response:

Ah the ’sun and sea’ treatment! wonder if I can get that on medical aid/health/insurance.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The first time I used valisone, I got a rebound effect and ended up using a > light booth to get over it. It was the only flare I have ever had. However, > it worked to clear my scalp, before the rebound. Then the scalp P came back > in spades., plus other spots all over. Mind you I still only went to about > 4% to 5% coverage during the flare. > Still, the doctor would never prescribe steroids for me again. However, 10 > years later, after he forgot, I convinced him to prescribe valisone again. I > have been using it for several years. For me, it is only effective on the > scalp and genitals, and newly forming plaques elsewhere that are just > starting. I use if for a couple weeks on a spot, until it clears, and then > for about a week afterwards to make sure. Then I stop using it. It has not > lost it’s effectiveness for me. > Unfortunately, it does not work on well established plaques not on the > genitals or scalp, and it does not work under nails. > I have never developed a resistance to coal tar. I have been using this for > over thirty years. However, it does me no good on its own. I have to use it > in conjunction with UVB to get any benefit. > Anthralin was a disaster. It stained everything and didn’t do a darn thing > for me. I hated it. I was prescribed it when the light booth had cleared up > everything but a small spot on my elbow and a couple nails. The doctor said > it should clear up the last bit. It didn’t. The P just came back to where it > was before the flare. > Tacrolimus, I have never used. > Every time I have come close to being clear, or been the most clear, it has > involved UVB, either from a booth, or the actual sun. > The best treatment, that I have found, is Caribbean Sun and salt water. It > is also the most fun. If you can also get into a sauna and/or a steam bath, > followed by a shower, at the end of each day, this is good too. It not only > seems to help with P, it also gets all the sun tan lotion and sweat off of > you. A week in the Caribbean has done wonders for me on a couple of > occasions. Two weeks would have been better. One week gets me almost clear. > I think two weeks could do the whole job. (Sigh! One day) > You have to swim in the ocean (do some snorkeling) and roast in the sun on > the beach, every day, or you won’t benefit. Just being there is not going to > help. So, if you do go, save the shopping, partying, and casino for the > evening. Spend the midday on the beach and in the ocean. > I don’t use sun block, until I begin to feel like I will start to burn if I > wait any longer. > Drink lots of green tea to help prevent skin cancer from the UVB. Eat plenty > of seafood. I don’t know if it helps, but it is very enjoyable. I can taste > the red snapper now! > Cheers, Cruiser > Hmmm…. I wonder if drinks with little umbrellas are good to treat > psoriasis. Say waitress! I’ll have "sex on the beach", please. Ahhh! That’s > better. Stress? What stress? >   I know there are only a few treatments for Psoriasis that work > temporarily > (such as Anthralin, Coal Tar, Tacrolimus, Corticosteroids, etc)   but Im > scared > to start anymore treatments for my Psoriasis because I fear I will build > up an > immunity to the medications and then nothing will help get rid of a > Psoriasis > outbreak anymore! >   In other words,  I’ve heard that Corticosteroids usually work for a few > weeks > but the Psoriasis always comes back even worse!   And that corticosteroids > can > only be used a few times (in genital areas) and they will no longer work + > the > skin gets thin! >   So If If I used some other topical treatments (such as > Anthralin,Tacrolimus,Coal Tar, etc)  will my Psoriasis come back even > worse > with these treatments also?   People say this happens with > Corticosteroids, but > what about these other topical treatments? >   My question is " Do all these treatments listed above, only work > temporarily > and  they will no longer work for me in the future when I need them? Im > scared  that if I use Anthralin now, that I will build up a tolerance to > it in > the future, then what will I do when it no longer works?

Response:

  I know there are only a few treatments for Psoriasis that work temporarily (such as Anthralin, Coal Tar, Tacrolimus, Corticosteroids, etc)   but Im scared to start anymore treatments for my Psoriasis because I fear I will build up an immunity to the medications and then nothing will help get rid of a Psoriasis outbreak anymore!     In other words,  I’ve heard that Corticosteroids usually work for a few weeks but the Psoriasis always comes back even worse!   And that corticosteroids can only be used a few times (in genital areas) and they will no longer work + the skin gets thin!     So If If I used some other topical treatments (such as Anthralin,Tacrolimus,Coal Tar, etc)  will my Psoriasis come back even worse with these treatments also?   People say this happens with Corticosteroids, but what about these other topical treatments?     My question is " Do all these treatments listed above, only work temporarily and  they will no longer work for me in the future when I need them?   Im scared  that if I use Anthralin now, that I will build up a tolerance to it in the future, then what will I do when it no longer works?  

Response:

I’ve been using Cutar coal tar treatment since July 2001.  I now dillute it with 50% distilled water so that (in theory) I don’t build up a resistence to the 100% solution and can use it at 100% if need be.  I am using it once a day at present.  From July to Septemeber, I used it 2-3 times a day in order to obtain clearing. So far I am maintaining about 95% clear with a few small spots on my lower legs. An occasional spot shows up in various locations which I treat locally twice a day with a 50-50 mix. I figure I can begin to add light treatment to my regime if the coal tar starts to become ineffective.  If I can make it to May at 95% clear, I think I will dillute it even futher. Hope this helps, Ed

Response:

>  In other words,  I’ve heard that Corticosteroids usually work for a few weeks >but the Psoriasis always comes back even worse!   And that corticosteroids can >only be used a few times (in genital areas) and they will no longer work + the >skin gets thin!  

The steroids are the worst about this, it’s called "rebound" when it not only comes back, but comes back worse.  If you taper off the steroids, with any luck the rebound is small — the p may come back, but not worse.  I dislike the steroids because of other side-effects they have on me, but only a few others seem to have these kinds of effects. Most other treatments do not cause rebound.  They may lose effectiveness over time, but generally, if you stay off them for a few months, they return to whatever effectiveness they ever had.  So, don’t worry about "using up" treatments in any permanent fashion. Oh yeah, some stuff, like methotrexate, has a recommended "lifetime" does, but recently I’ve read that with small doses and a "vacation" of a few months, even that may not be a limitation. Good luck! J.

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Question:

>I drink quite a lot of tea, and it just might help — when I miss it, >I feel a bit itchier.  

HI, JR. Tea makes me just as "spotty" as coffee; so you might want to consider going without. I’m not at all clear about what has caused me itching, in the past, but it is evidentally something I don’t eat much of these days or aply to my skin. I was told, years ago by a young derm. at U. of Oregon that psoriasis, by itself, does not itch, that itching is symptomatic of an allergy, which might be topical or dietary. >Which is not to preclude the idea that there might be an herb or >animal out there with just the right suppressor for at least a few >people’s psoriasis, plus or minus combination with others.  Ain’t >likely, perhaps, but we gotta do something to pass the time, right?

I’ve had some minor help from grapeseed extract and EPO, but the biggest bang for the buck has been from eliminating and reducing things in the diet. Best wishes, Terry — To send friendly e-mail, replace "nospam" with "ttowne1" and "emptymind" with "mindspring.

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http://www.google.com/search?q=lyprinol&hl=en&safe=off&start=0&sa=N http://www.aomega.com/ahs/l1116b.htm Lyprinol (lyprinex).  Very interesting!  Omega-3’s from green mussel, otc, available all over, cheap, has a reasonable rationale, … I’d like to hear from someone using, might even give it a go myself! — Zileuton   Available in:Tablets Drug Class:Selective 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor Not available over-the-counter Not available as Generic  Brand Names   Zyflo   Side Effects   Serious Liver problems causing nausea, fatigue, lethargy, skin rash or itching, yellow discoloration of the eyes or skin, flu-like symptoms, urine that is darker than normal. Call your doctor immediately.    Common Headache, general pain, abdominal pain, nausea, indigestion, muscle soreness, weakness.    Less Common Joint pain, chest pain, inflammation of the tissues surrounding the eye (conjunctivitis), constipation, dizziness, fever, gas, insomnia or sleepiness, neck pain, nervousness, urinary tract infection, vomiting. Zileuton … hmm.  It’s a good question whether it would help psoriasis, but it sounds definitely hazardous.  Interesting, tho. J.

Response:

>Zileuton … hmm.  It’s a good question whether it would help >psoriasis, but it sounds definitely hazardous.  Interesting, tho.

Mahonia Aquifolia contains alkaloids which are lipoxegenase inhibitors.  Sold over-the-counter as "homeopathic" treatments (at 10% it’s not very dilute!), though, they don’t appear to be so great at combatting psoriasis.  Perhaps, as has been suggested, the dosage is too low (but then a higher dosage would mean higher risk of side-effects, and plants alkaloids are, after all, usually poisons created to deter ingestion by animals or insects).    http://members.aol.com/psorsite/docs/oregongrape.html – Dave W. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/

Response:

>Mahonia Aquifolia contains alkaloids which are lipoxegenase >inhibitors.

Seems like practically all fruits and vegetables contain *some* degree of cox and lox inhibitors, onions and black tea (quercetin), ginger, garlic, turmeric, anything with bioflavinoids, … Probably our metabolism has evolved this very complex immune system so it is hard to stop simply by eating common foods, the system adjusts and uses remaining pathways … which are very poorly researched even today. I drink quite a lot of tea, and it just might help — when I miss it, I feel a bit itchier.  I’ve tried the quercetin capsules, they probably help a bit more, but I think it may work too well and make me more susceptible to colds, and there’s a bit of a rebound when I stop taking it.  I tried chopping up a whole onion into whatever I cooked for dinner for a couple of weeks, and it was tasty enough, and might have helped a little, but was certainly no cure, either.  And I eat a lot of garlic just because, and ginger, too, but no cures, once again. Which is not to preclude the idea that there might be an herb or animal out there with just the right suppressor for at least a few people’s psoriasis, plus or minus combination with others.  Ain’t likely, perhaps, but we gotta do something to pass the time, right? J.

Response:

Hi, Does anyone have any experience with lyprinol for psoriasis treatment. Since it appears to be effective in preventing leukotriene production, it would seem to be potentially beneficial. Alternatively, does anyone have experience in using the new leukotriene inhibitors,  like zileuton (available as Zyflo for asthma in US), or zafirlukast (Accolate in US which affects receptors in lung so I don’t know if same receptors are in skin) or the even newer montelukast (Singulair), pranlukast or verlukast.   I don’t think these are generally available yet, but thought someone may know of some trials.  The Zyflo would seem to me to be the best shot.   Thought maybe there is someone out there with asthma and psoriasis and maybe they’ve seen something. Best Wishes, Marv

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Question:

>The people who sell this stuff make up semi-believable stories about toxins >in the liver coming out on the skin, or processed foods causing your body to >reject your skin or leaky gut, or complex posts using scientific terminology >to promote a theory about how you can’t process your glucose properly!

To put it in skeptic’s terms, they use "pseudoscience."  It’s not real science, but it *sounds* like science.  Lots of ten-cent words.  Lots of "studies have shown," without citations to those studies.  Lots of conspiracy theories, as you said, Ava.  See:   http://www.skepdic.com/pseudosc.html (Wow, it looks like Carroll’s amost got his whole index referenced in that article. [grin]) See also "Why People Believe Weird Things – Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time" by Michael Shermer.  And, of course, see "The Demon-Haunted World – Science as a Candle in the Dark" by Carl Sagan. – Dave W. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/

Response:

>>The people who sell this stuff make up semi-believable stories about toxins >in the liver coming out on the skin, or processed foods causing your body to >reject your skin or leaky gut, or complex posts using scientific terminology >to promote a theory about how you can’t process your glucose properly! >To put it in skeptic’s terms, they use "pseudoscience."

Yeah, but. But conventional doctors refuse to learn anything about nutrition. But I’ll betcha that there is some truth to some of these conditions for some people — random reinforcement creates really nasty operant conditioning, doncha know.  The real science will catch up eventually. A lot of skepticism and a little careful experimentation isn’t all bad, helps to pass the time, anyway, once you’ve gone thru whatever the conventional doctors have to offer. J.

Response:

Ack, I see the point about scientific explanations though. I guess it’s a matter of education, and that everyone here needs to do as much research into the causes of their disease(s) as they can and understand the mechanics as thoroughly as possible. Going by personal experience, I think a lot of us get the cause and symptoms of our conditions too tangled up and start thinking that something that makes the symptoms vanish–even briefly–must be some kind of "cure". Thus the allure of crap products like SkinCap and the South American Shouting Cure (heh heh). –Will

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In the meantime, I think people can probably avoid being suckered by all the >sheisters out there by asking them how *exactly* does their product act in >the body > You’re right but that is the problem we have here all the time. > The people who sell this stuff make up semi-believable stories about toxins in > the liver coming out on the skin, or processed foods causing your body to > reject your skin or leaky gut, or complex posts using scientific terminology to > promote a theory about how you can’t process your glucose properly! > When those of us who have learned the proven data, the facts that are known > about Psoriasis and about the human body, we get blasted for being in various > conspiracies with doctors and drug companies to fool people into using > dangerous drugs! > Thanks for giving me a chance to point that out! I’m very excited about all the > reseach too. In fact, this morning’s post was one of the first I’ve seen that > referred to the PA as well as the Psoriasis and that is very encouraging! > Ava

Response:

>In the meantime, I think people can probably avoid being suckered by all the >sheisters out there by asking them how *exactly* does their product act in >the body

You’re right but that is the problem we have here all the time. The people who sell this stuff make up semi-believable stories about toxins in the liver coming out on the skin, or processed foods causing your body to reject your skin or leaky gut, or complex posts using scientific terminology to promote a theory about how you can’t process your glucose properly! When those of us who have learned the proven data, the facts that are known about Psoriasis and about the human body, we get blasted for being in various conspiracies with doctors and drug companies to fool people into using dangerous drugs! Thanks for giving me a chance to point that out! I’m very excited about all the reseach too. In fact, this morning’s post was one of the first I’ve seen that referred to the PA as well as the Psoriasis and that is very encouraging! Ava

Response:

Hah, so I guess I’m "third-string" with my seborrheic dermatitis! Hee hee. Looks promising though. Most, if not all, of these young biotechnology and biopharmaceutical companies wouldn’t even BE is it weren’t for the results of the Human Genome Project, seeing as how their research and drugs are centered around the HGP. But hey, this is a very good thing. It means we are going to get medications based on how the body actually works, not the hit-and-miss guesswork traditionally involved in trying to find "cures" for something. In the meantime, I think people can probably avoid being suckered by all the sheisters out there by asking them how *exactly* does their product act in the body. I figure if someone pushing a new psoriasis treatment doesn’t know *exactly* how their product works, that they know nothing at all about the disease they are purporting to treat. Take something like SkinCap for example–yes, we all know it masks symptoms with steroids, but ask anyone pushing that garbage how their product works, and they won’t be able to tell you anything specific (unless they want to admit to the illegal steroids their product contains). Same with anything else. Sorry to ramble, but you got me thinking. –(the other) Will – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> New Developments in Psoriasis Therapeutics Create Market Opportunities > NEW YORK, June 29 /PRNewswire/ — The advent of new biotechnology-derived > innovations has re-energized the stagnant field of psoriasis therapeutics. > According to a study released today by Kalorama Information, a division of > MarketResearch.com, the current U.S. market for psoriasis therapeutics stands > at $4.3 billion, but is expected to reach $6 billion by the year 2007. > The study, The U.S. Market and Developments Associated with Psoriasis, reviews > current and pending approaches to psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, > particularly examining the progress being made in advanced therapeutics, such > as antioxidants, monoclonal antibodies, cytokines, PVAC, and oral retinoids. > As outcomes focused on quality of life become more important in the healthcare > system and researchers make advances in the understanding of the immune and > inflammatory system, psoriasis will move from a "second string opportunity" to > a legitimate and significant pharmaceutical prospect, according to the study. > Although many patients with mild psoriasis will continue to self medicate and > use over-the-counter preparations, this study clearly shows that they will > likely move to the prescription sector as the disease begins to progress and > new, more effective agents are made available and promoted. > "The psoriasis industry has historically been a highly fragmented one.  In > general, pharmaceutical companies have not wanted to be identified with > psoriasis — a condition for which there is no known cause or cure," notes > Steven Heffner, Acquisitions Editor at Kalorama.  "Pharmaceutical companies > don’t want to be associated with products that don’t provide a solution to a > problem."  However, the study reveals that a new interest in psoriasis has > developed in young biotechnology and biopharmaceutical companies.  These firms > are developing therapeutics directed specifically at psoriasis and psoriatic > arthritis, and in doing so they are creating an identifiable and promising > industry of psoriasis therapeutics. > About Kalorama Information > Kalorarma Information, a division of MarketResearch.com, supplies the latest in > pharmaceutical research, exploring treatments and technology, legislation, > regulation, and ideological trends.  For more information, contact Steven > About MarketResearch.com > MarketResearch.com is the leading provider of global market intelligence > products and services.  With over 40,000 research publications from more than > 350 top consulting and advisory firms, we offer instant online access to the > world’s most extensive database of expert insights on global industries, > companies, products, and trends.  Updated daily.  For more information, contact > http://www.MarketResearch.com. > MAKE YOUR OPINION COUNT –  Click Here > http://tbutton.prnewswire.com/prn/11690X11472109 > SOURCE  MarketResearch.com > CO:  MarketResearch.com; Kalorama Information > ST:  New York > IN:  MLM BIO MTC HEA > SU: > Best regards,

Response:

New Developments in Psoriasis Therapeutics Create Market Opportunities NEW YORK, June 29 /PRNewswire/ — The advent of new biotechnology-derived innovations has re-energized the stagnant field of psoriasis therapeutics. According to a study released today by Kalorama Information, a division of MarketResearch.com, the current U.S. market for psoriasis therapeutics stands at $4.3 billion, but is expected to reach $6 billion by the year 2007. The study, The U.S. Market and Developments Associated with Psoriasis, reviews current and pending approaches to psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, particularly examining the progress being made in advanced therapeutics, such as antioxidants, monoclonal antibodies, cytokines, PVAC, and oral retinoids. As outcomes focused on quality of life become more important in the healthcare system and researchers make advances in the understanding of the immune and inflammatory system, psoriasis will move from a "second string opportunity" to a legitimate and significant pharmaceutical prospect, according to the study. Although many patients with mild psoriasis will continue to self medicate and use over-the-counter preparations, this study clearly shows that they will likely move to the prescription sector as the disease begins to progress and new, more effective agents are made available and promoted. "The psoriasis industry has historically been a highly fragmented one.  In general, pharmaceutical companies have not wanted to be identified with psoriasis — a condition for which there is no known cause or cure," notes Steven Heffner, Acquisitions Editor at Kalorama.  "Pharmaceutical companies don’t want to be associated with products that don’t provide a solution to a problem."  However, the study reveals that a new interest in psoriasis has developed in young biotechnology and biopharmaceutical companies.  These firms are developing therapeutics directed specifically at psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, and in doing so they are creating an identifiable and promising industry of psoriasis therapeutics. About Kalorama Information   Kalorarma Information, a division of MarketResearch.com, supplies the latest in pharmaceutical research, exploring treatments and technology, legislation, regulation, and ideological trends.  For more information, contact Steven About MarketResearch.com   MarketResearch.com is the leading provider of global market intelligence products and services.  With over 40,000 research publications from more than 350 top consulting and advisory firms, we offer instant online access to the world’s most extensive database of expert insights on global industries, companies, products, and trends.  Updated daily.  For more information, contact http://www.MarketResearch.com. MAKE YOUR OPINION COUNT –  Click Here   http://tbutton.prnewswire.com/prn/11690X11472109   SOURCE  MarketResearch.com   CO:  MarketResearch.com; Kalorama Information ST:  New York IN:  MLM BIO MTC HEA SU: Best regards,

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Question:

>And thanks Sarah, if aol hadn’t molested my electronic gizmoids i would be >more chipper…its not your fault… its those aol buzzards…and no warning to >save as a file…inconceivable… how rude they are..

That’s AOL for you.  If I think I’m going to be rambling on in a newsgroup post, I write it in some text editor or word processor, then cut & paste.  For email, AOL asks you if you want to save (unless it dumps hard), but not for newsgroup posts. – Dave W. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/

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Ava quotes;> >My sister is a bit "against" doctors; she is. However, that was because >practially NO doctor seemed really helpful! A doctor used >hormone, but as we >know that kind of stuff is both "helpful" and dangerous.

Not having hormones is not kind if it results in Dwarfism,,, thank god for doctors!!! unless one wants to be a midget all his or her life..mentally or not.. I would say that your sister has an irrational fear…its possible that she should see a psychologist… whoops..the’re doctors to…sigh..Its a cruel world…. How about a which doctor? Nope…? Faith based minister without a doctorate? How about the Porno King, larry guccione? his wife had breast cancer and drank rocket fuel. She could try that cure..I don’t think Larry or his wife were or are Doctors…and she blasted off….left the launching pad… Gone… Ava said: >I’m not sure if you are saying that no doctor could cure your sister or that >no >doctor could effectively treat her

She is saying what she said…decodeing it is getting to be much of a game….someone needs to ask her if she isn’t enjoying her fame. So the doctor won’t diagnose her hypochondria and spoil all the fun.. Now, is that a poor diagnosis or am i becoming like them thar doctors… q.>>know that kind of stuff is both "helpful" and dangerous. Randall….dangerouly helpful…help..shes drowning …got p?

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>My sister is a bit "against" doctors; she is. However, that was because >practially NO doctor seemed really helpful! A doctor used hormone, but as we >know that kind of stuff is both "helpful" and dangerous.

I’m not sure if you are saying that no doctor could cure your sister or that no doctor could effectively treat her. Psoriasis is incurable at this time. If any doctor is claiming he/she can cure Psoriasis, they are lying. However there are many excellent treatments that she may not have been offered. Yes, most drugs do have side effects and they vary as to how serious they are and each of us must decide whether to risk side effects or accept our PS. If all she’s tried is hormone treatment (I have never heard of hormones being used as a Psoriasis treatment) you should take her to a good dermatologist and see about some other therapies that are available. Good luck! Ava

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Well I’m with Ava that it’s really not a great idea to ask anyone to diagnose something just from a description -aside from not knowing anything about those who answer, you might unwittingly leave something out of your description that’s key to pinning things down accurately. But if you’re determined to go this route, you’d probably do better to try the general skin diseases ng rather than one that’s supposed to be dedicated to just psoriasis. That group’s alt.support.skin-diseases >Dear folks, I’m not going to get obsessed with metaphisical debates–just >looking for help! >My sister is a bit "against" doctors; she is. However, that was because >practially NO doctor seemed really helpful! A doctor used hormone, but as we >know that kind of stuff is both "helpful" and dangerous. Now come on, are >there any more suggestions? >J.A.W.

The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at               http://pfaq.cjb.net but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a            newsgroup near you…

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Dear folks, I’m not going to get obsessed with metaphisical debates–just looking for help! My sister is a bit "against" doctors; she is. However, that was because practially NO doctor seemed really helpful! A doctor used hormone, but as we know that kind of stuff is both "helpful" and dangerous. Now come on, are there any more suggestions? J.A.W.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Randall > I have just read your last few posts and I find them very amusing.  It is > good to be able to smile again. Sometimes having P and PA makes life very > depressing but when I have all these interesting and entertaining posts to > read it makes life seem a bit better and more copable. > Sarah. > txlady said:>Why do people come to the Internet for advice they should get > from > their > >physicians > Doctor heal thyself. What if your doctor has it too? I’ve had two of em > with > it… > >  IMHO, there are a lot of us who have spent thousands of dollars > >seeing many specialist in our areas, but no cure (and sometimes no > You must excuse me..as it doesn’t seem to humble….IMO > >IF the doctor is willing to come off his/her God Complex > >long enough to listen. > Why bother talking to em..unless you have undiagnosed scurvy?Geez.. they > ain’t > god > >Am I against doctors?  No, I am not > You can’t have your cake and eat it too. unless you figure it all out. let > me > know. > >nd surprisingly, most of these types of unexplained illnesses are due to > >nutrition deficiencies…an area that doctors are not as familiar with as > a > >layperson might think. > interresting, got anything that works? > And do you eat it? or put it in the water? > Randall- trying to make some sense of P chat-

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Hi Sarah. thanks.. I wrote a really killer letter thanking you..all about my philosophy with humor. and aol booted me and its gone…i am so depressed…screw them ..ok..i feel better now…cept..for my butt is killing me.. it was one of my finest..i am stilll bummed out..cripes..why does aol do that? argh. thats life..its roaming around the web.. and i nver got to send it… why why why..feeling like nancy kerigan….why? because..the other girl was a bitch? Sheesh…its trying to come back… but still i really feel like i was raped..electronically…  screwed by aol… Can’t we all get along? rodney king if you share some of that beating money, i’ll make an exception… Oh well.. it was a picasso… i laughed so hard , a few times…i almost died.. cardiac arrest….it had something… and after a trauma like this..i may not recover for quite some time.. damn if my p gets worse i’m suing the creeps…for p theft.. why. would you look at this.. i have to go to bed.. Well, at least i ain’t doing diapers tonite! hehe though i wouldn’t mind….congrats again Davew…whats his name? Soloman? And thanks Sarah, if aol hadn’t molested my electronic gizmoids i would be more chipper…its not your fault… its those aol buzzards…and no warning to save as a file…inconceivable… how rude they are.. Ranting Randall…rrrrr’ i’ll get you aol…vengence will be mine…i want my aborted post back…from the oblivion..

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Thank you Kim, I will keep your thoughts in mind.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey txlady- > Perhaps Ava shouldn’t have referred to you as bitter or frustrated, > although I think if you are fair you can see where she might have > gotten that idea from what you say. > and before you jump all over her for not paying proper attention: >Ava, >I am not bitter or frustrated.  But I am not ignorant either.  And, I didn’t >mention anything about seeking a diagnosis through the Internet. > no, but you wrote in apparent refutation of her offering some > reasonable objections to people doing so, so you certainly appeared to > be discussing that. > And what exactly is your >reference "why would you think some stranger who may have no education >whatsoever but an axe to grind because they’ve had a bad experience would >know more about nutrition than the average doctor?" supposed to mean? >Certainly you aren’t assuming you know the educational level of any of us? > She didn’t say she did. Operative word in the above is "may" and she > spoke in general terms rather than specific finger pointing. Clearly > there have been plenty of examples of the sort of response she refers > to here on this ng, proving that it is a valid concern. >And actually, there are lots of sources with lots of scientific evidence >from reliable sources that prove nutritional deficiencies as a cause of >disease.  Just search on the Internet or visit your local library. > True, but that’s not the same as what you originally said, which was > that *most* of these diseases with unexplained cause are from such > things. No one, including Ava, denies that they can be *a *cause of > *some* diseases. . >And as for the original poster, had you kept up with his post, you would >know that a doctor has already been consulted and no answer has been >provided. > Well no, he didn’t say that, at least in this thread. What he said was > that treatments (source not speicifed) had not been successful. > Various things called treatments could have been prescribed by anyone. > Just as the problem could be of unknown origin mainly because the > right sort of specialist has yet to be consulted, not because it’s > unknowable. >I came to this newsgroup to share and support others.  Your snotty behavior >is inexcusable.  Perhaps you don’t know what IMHO means…In my humble >OPINION, to which I am certainly entitled.  If anyone is angry and bitter >here, it is you.  I do not choose to get involved in an online "fight" with >you and am not going to respond to any further flaming. > Which is mainly why I’m repying. You’ve put Ava in a no win position > to try to defend herself from. Ava’s entitiled to her opinion too, > y’know. Which was that seeking a diagnosis from unknown strangers with > unknown credentials or agendas is not a good idea. Yeah, there are > genuinely helpful people out there but there are also people who might > answer without knowing what they’re talking about or in a more > actively evil attempt to lure you into buying a cure from them. With > little basis to judge the difference. At least a doctor or a > nutritionist should have credentials that can be presented for > verification. While name calling and personal attacks, such as calling > her snotty, the above bit about ‘had she kept up with the post’, etc > aren’t particularly conducive to the sorts of thing you claim to > support,. > Look, I’m not trying to start a new fight, just suggesting that you > seem to have gone further than was justified and in a way that is > directly contrary to what you claim to be trying to contribute to. > Sometimes people have pointed out similar things to me about my > behavior. I may not have enjoyed swallowing it, but I’ve found that > sometimes they’re right. > Kim >> > IMHO, there are a lot of us who have spent thousands of dollars >> >seeing many specialist in our areas, but no cure (and sometimes no >> >diagnosis) is found.  Sharing an experience with more people is a >last-ditch >> >effort to find SOMEONE who might have been through a similar experience >with >> >better luck.  And if this someone is located, they might just be able to >> >offer some insightful information worthy of sharing with a doctor.  Of >> >course, that is IF the doctor is willing to come off his/her God Complex >> >long enough to listen. >> I’m sorry that you are bitter and frustrated but I still say that asking >> strangers on the internet for a diagnosis of a disease, especially one >that has >> the symptoms described by the original poster is absolutely ridiculous! >> Sharing success stories, incidents of side effects, articles on new >discoveries >> about illnesses and offering a personal connection for hope and >understanding >> is what the health message boards and newsgroups do best. >> >And surprisingly, most of these types of unexplained illnesses are due to >> >nutrition deficiencies…an area that doctors are not as familiar with as >a >> >layperson might think. >> Utter bullshit.  I’m so sick of this stupid accusation about doctors not >> knowing about nutrition. They don’t live in caves. >> They learn about new things all the time and even if you think their >education >> was insufficient in the area of nutrition, they do update their knowledge >and >> skills in order to provide service to their patients. Not all, but most. >Why >> wouldn’t they? Oh yeah, they conspire to keep us sick, right? >> Again, why would you think some stranger who may have no education >whatsoever >> but an axe to grind because they’ve had a bad experience would know more >about >> nutrition than the average doctor? >> Prove that "most of these unexplained illnesses are due to nutritional >> deficiencies" with scientific proof from reliable sources. Don’t make >sweeping >> statements that you can never prove. >> Getting a diagnosis for a disease from strangers on the Internet is stupid >and >> dangerous. I hope the original poster has seen a qualified physician by >now, if >> for no other reason than that the description could have been of a >communicable >> disease. >> Ava > The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at >               http://pfaq.cjb.net > but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a >            newsgroup near you…

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Ava, I am not bitter or frustrated.  But I am not ignorant either.  And, I didn’t mention anything about seeking a diagnosis through the Internet.  What I said was, that SHARING AN EXPERIENCE WITH MORE PEOPLE IS A LAST-DITCH EFFORT TO FIND SOMEONE WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN THROUGH A SIMILAR EXPERIENCE WITH BETTER LUCK.  AND IF THIS SOMEONE IS LOCATED, THEY MIGHT JUST BE ABLE TO OFFER SOME INSIGHTFUL INFORMATION WORTHY OF SHARING WITH A DOCTOR. In case you need an interpretation, that does not bypass the doctor in any way. And um, doctors DON’T know as much about nutrition as a nutritionist.  They DON’T take as many educational courses on it as nutritionists do.  And it IS big money to sell medication rather than good nutrition. Is there a huge consipiracy?  Who the hell knows.  But my personal doctors are NOT a part of one.  They agree with ME.  And what exactly is your reference "why would you think some stranger who may have no education whatsoever but an axe to grind because they’ve had a bad experience would know more about nutrition than the average doctor?" supposed to mean? Certainly you aren’t assuming you know the educational level of any of us? And actually, there are lots of sources with lots of scientific evidence from reliable sources that prove nutritional deficiencies as a cause of disease.  Just search on the Internet or visit your local library. And as for the original poster, had you kept up with his post, you would know that a doctor has already been consulted and no answer has been provided. I came to this newsgroup to share and support others.  Your snotty behavior is inexcusable.  Perhaps you don’t know what IMHO means…In my humble OPINION, to which I am certainly entitled.  If anyone is angry and bitter here, it is you.  I do not choose to get involved in an online "fight" with you and am not going to respond to any further flaming.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> IMHO, there are a lot of us who have spent thousands of dollars >seeing many specialist in our areas, but no cure (and sometimes no >diagnosis) is found.  Sharing an experience with more people is a last-ditch >effort to find SOMEONE who might have been through a similar experience with >better luck.  And if this someone is located, they might just be able to >offer some insightful information worthy of sharing with a doctor.  Of >course, that is IF the doctor is willing to come off his/her God Complex >long enough to listen. > I’m sorry that you are bitter and frustrated but I still say that asking > strangers on the internet for a diagnosis of a disease, especially one that has > the symptoms described by the original poster is absolutely ridiculous! > Sharing success stories, incidents of side effects, articles on new discoveries > about illnesses and offering a personal connection for hope and understanding > is what the health message boards and newsgroups do best. >And surprisingly, most of these types of unexplained illnesses are due to >nutrition deficiencies…an area that doctors are not as familiar with as a >layperson might think. > Utter bullshit.  I’m so sick of this stupid accusation about doctors not > knowing about nutrition. They don’t live in caves. > They learn about new things all the time and even if you think their education > was insufficient in the area of nutrition, they do update their knowledge and > skills in order to provide service to their patients. Not all, but most. Why > wouldn’t they? Oh yeah, they conspire to keep us sick, right? > Again, why would you think some stranger who may have no education whatsoever > but an axe to grind because they’ve had a bad experience would know more about > nutrition than the average doctor? > Prove that "most of these unexplained illnesses are due to nutritional > deficiencies" with scientific proof from reliable sources. Don’t make sweeping > statements that you can never prove. > Getting a diagnosis for a disease from strangers on the Internet is stupid and > dangerous. I hope the original poster has seen a qualified physician by now, if > for no other reason than that the description could have been of a communicable > disease. > Ava

Response:

Hey txlady- Perhaps Ava shouldn’t have referred to you as bitter or frustrated, although I think if you are fair you can see where she might have gotten that idea from what you say. and before you jump all over her for not paying proper attention: >Ava, >I am not bitter or frustrated.  But I am not ignorant either.  And, I didn’t >mention anything about seeking a diagnosis through the Internet.

no, but you wrote in apparent refutation of her offering some reasonable objections to people doing so, so you certainly appeared to be discussing that. > And what exactly is your >reference "why would you think some stranger who may have no education >whatsoever but an axe to grind because they’ve had a bad experience would >know more about nutrition than the average doctor?" supposed to mean? >Certainly you aren’t assuming you know the educational level of any of us?

She didn’t say she did. Operative word in the above is "may" and she spoke in general terms rather than specific finger pointing. Clearly there have been plenty of examples of the sort of response she refers to here on this ng, proving that it is a valid concern. >And actually, there are lots of sources with lots of scientific evidence >from reliable sources that prove nutritional deficiencies as a cause of >disease.  Just search on the Internet or visit your local library.

True, but that’s not the same as what you originally said, which was that *most* of these diseases with unexplained cause are from such things. No one, including Ava, denies that they can be *a *cause of *some* diseases. . >And as for the original poster, had you kept up with his post, you would >know that a doctor has already been consulted and no answer has been >provided.

Well no, he didn’t say that, at least in this thread. What he said was that treatments (source not speicifed) had not been successful. Various things called treatments could have been prescribed by anyone. Just as the problem could be of unknown origin mainly because the right sort of specialist has yet to be consulted, not because it’s unknowable. >I came to this newsgroup to share and support others.  Your snotty behavior >is inexcusable.  Perhaps you don’t know what IMHO means…In my humble >OPINION, to which I am certainly entitled.  If anyone is angry and bitter >here, it is you.  I do not choose to get involved in an online "fight" with >you and am not going to respond to any further flaming.

Which is mainly why I’m repying. You’ve put Ava in a no win position to try to defend herself from. Ava’s entitiled to her opinion too, y’know. Which was that seeking a diagnosis from unknown strangers with unknown credentials or agendas is not a good idea. Yeah, there are genuinely helpful people out there but there are also people who might answer without knowing what they’re talking about or in a more actively evil attempt to lure you into buying a cure from them. With little basis to judge the difference. At least a doctor or a nutritionist should have credentials that can be presented for verification. While name calling and personal attacks, such as calling her snotty, the above bit about ‘had she kept up with the post’, etc aren’t particularly conducive to the sorts of thing you claim to support,. Look, I’m not trying to start a new fight, just suggesting that you seem to have gone further than was justified and in a way that is directly contrary to what you claim to be trying to contribute to. Sometimes people have pointed out similar things to me about my behavior. I may not have enjoyed swallowing it, but I’ve found that sometimes they’re right. Kim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > IMHO, there are a lot of us who have spent thousands of dollars > >seeing many specialist in our areas, but no cure (and sometimes no > >diagnosis) is found.  Sharing an experience with more people is a >last-ditch > >effort to find SOMEONE who might have been through a similar experience >with > >better luck.  And if this someone is located, they might just be able to > >offer some insightful information worthy of sharing with a doctor.  Of > >course, that is IF the doctor is willing to come off his/her God Complex > >long enough to listen. > I’m sorry that you are bitter and frustrated but I still say that asking > strangers on the internet for a diagnosis of a disease, especially one >that has > the symptoms described by the original poster is absolutely ridiculous! > Sharing success stories, incidents of side effects, articles on new >discoveries > about illnesses and offering a personal connection for hope and >understanding > is what the health message boards and newsgroups do best. > >And surprisingly, most of these types of unexplained illnesses are due to > >nutrition deficiencies…an area that doctors are not as familiar with as >a > >layperson might think. > Utter bullshit.  I’m so sick of this stupid accusation about doctors not > knowing about nutrition. They don’t live in caves. > They learn about new things all the time and even if you think their >education > was insufficient in the area of nutrition, they do update their knowledge >and > skills in order to provide service to their patients. Not all, but most. >Why > wouldn’t they? Oh yeah, they conspire to keep us sick, right? > Again, why would you think some stranger who may have no education >whatsoever > but an axe to grind because they’ve had a bad experience would know more >about > nutrition than the average doctor? > Prove that "most of these unexplained illnesses are due to nutritional > deficiencies" with scientific proof from reliable sources. Don’t make >sweeping > statements that you can never prove. > Getting a diagnosis for a disease from strangers on the Internet is stupid >and > dangerous. I hope the original poster has seen a qualified physician by >now, if > for no other reason than that the description could have been of a >communicable > disease. > Ava

The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at               http://pfaq.cjb.net but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a            newsgroup near you…

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Lady AVA said:>Utter bullshit >’m so sick of this stupid accusation about doctors not >knowing about nutrition. They don’t live in caves.

are you sure? I knew two of em that lived in caves…back in 35,000 B C.. did a little art thing on the walls… now, was that the Neandertalls or the Cromagnons family.? Men, where heavy into the meat thing… taught the male kids this thang… the women folk heavy into gathering, roots and berries.. some, fermented and the men took note… during this time.. they mostly used chiro stuff to fix broken bones. and tattooing for accupuncture.. also, now known as alternative meds.. for the fundementalist in you… sigh.. some customs…. hang around for a long time… ava said":>ime and even if you think their education >was insufficient in the area of nutrition, they do update their knowledge and

and i thought they ate nuts and berries.. and golfed all the time.. ava said: >Oh yeah, they conspire to keep us sick, right?

Just good bizness practice Ava…. lol Good thing none of em tells us the truth..how to cure P…. when that cat is outa the bag…. Look out… Ava said: >Prove that "most of these unexplained illnesses are due to nutritional >deficiencies" with scientific proof from reliable sources. Don’t make >sweeping >statements that you can never prove.

Never! say Never! Never ….got it? >Getting a diagnosis for a disease from strangers on the Internet is stupid >and >dangerous. I hope the original poster has seen a qualified physician by now, >if >for no other reason than that the description could have been of a >communicable

Holy Cow! and i was just about to go looking for a Brain Sturgeon… For my headache.. maybe if i get off the web. and go out and exercise…. naw… I would rather make your day miserable….hehe Randall not the font of wisdom till narnia

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Randall I have just read your last few posts and I find them very amusing.  It is good to be able to smile again. Sometimes having P and PA makes life very depressing but when I have all these interesting and entertaining posts to read it makes life seem a bit better and more copable. Sarah.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> txlady said:>Why do people come to the Internet for advice they should get from > their >physicians > Doctor heal thyself. What if your doctor has it too? I’ve had two of em with > it… >  IMHO, there are a lot of us who have spent thousands of dollars >seeing many specialist in our areas, but no cure (and sometimes no > You must excuse me..as it doesn’t seem to humble….IMO >IF the doctor is willing to come off his/her God Complex >long enough to listen. > Why bother talking to em..unless you have undiagnosed scurvy?Geez.. they ain’t > god >Am I against doctors?  No, I am not > You can’t have your cake and eat it too. unless you figure it all out. let me > know. >nd surprisingly, most of these types of unexplained illnesses are due to >nutrition deficiencies…an area that doctors are not as familiar with as a >layperson might think. > interresting, got anything that works? > And do you eat it? or put it in the water? > Randall- trying to make some sense of P chat-

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>Don’t wait , get her to an ER now and warn of possible infectious disease >Future LPN Glenda, Witch of the North

GGWON, Great advice!  I can never figure out why people would come to the Internet for what obviously requires medical attention, but we see it all the time. Maybe someday we will be able to use the computer to treat our diseases, but we aren’t there yet! Ava

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Why do people come to the Internet for advice they should get from their physicians?  IMHO, there are a lot of us who have spent thousands of dollars seeing many specialist in our areas, but no cure (and sometimes no diagnosis) is found.  Sharing an experience with more people is a last-ditch effort to find SOMEONE who might have been through a similar experience with better luck.  And if this someone is located, they might just be able to offer some insightful information worthy of sharing with a doctor.  Of course, that is IF the doctor is willing to come off his/her God Complex long enough to listen. Am I against doctors?  No, I am not.  But, like many of these people, I have had the experience of undiagnosed illness that frustrated doctors who couldn’t "cure" it immediately or made a diagnosis that ended up false. And surprisingly, most of these types of unexplained illnesses are due to nutrition deficiencies…an area that doctors are not as familiar with as a layperson might think.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Don’t wait , get her to an ER now and warn of possible infectious disease >Future LPN Glenda, Witch of the North > GGWON, > Great advice!  I can never figure out why people would come to the Internet for > what obviously requires medical attention, but we see it all the time. > Maybe someday we will be able to use the computer to treat our diseases, but we > aren’t there yet! > Ava

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> IMHO, there are a lot of us who have spent thousands of dollars >seeing many specialist in our areas, but no cure (and sometimes no >diagnosis) is found.  Sharing an experience with more people is a last-ditch >effort to find SOMEONE who might have been through a similar experience with >better luck.  And if this someone is located, they might just be able to >offer some insightful information worthy of sharing with a doctor.  Of >course, that is IF the doctor is willing to come off his/her God Complex >long enough to listen.

I’m sorry that you are bitter and frustrated but I still say that asking strangers on the internet for a diagnosis of a disease, especially one that has the symptoms described by the original poster is absolutely ridiculous! Sharing success stories, incidents of side effects, articles on new discoveries about illnesses and offering a personal connection for hope and understanding is what the health message boards and newsgroups do best. >And surprisingly, most of these types of unexplained illnesses are due to >nutrition deficiencies…an area that doctors are not as familiar with as a >layperson might think.

Utter bullshit.  I’m so sick of this stupid accusation about doctors not knowing about nutrition. They don’t live in caves. They learn about new things all the time and even if you think their education was insufficient in the area of nutrition, they do update their knowledge and skills in order to provide service to their patients. Not all, but most. Why wouldn’t they? Oh yeah, they conspire to keep us sick, right? Again, why would you think some stranger who may have no education whatsoever but an axe to grind because they’ve had a bad experience would know more about nutrition than the average doctor? Prove that "most of these unexplained illnesses are due to nutritional deficiencies" with scientific proof from reliable sources. Don’t make sweeping statements that you can never prove. Getting a diagnosis for a disease from strangers on the Internet is stupid and dangerous. I hope the original poster has seen a qualified physician by now, if for no other reason than that the description could have been of a communicable disease. Ava

Response:

txlady said:>Why do people come to the Internet for advice they should get from their >physicians

Doctor heal thyself. What if your doctor has it too? I’ve had two of em with it… >  IMHO, there are a lot of us who have spent thousands of dollars >seeing many specialist in our areas, but no cure (and sometimes no

You must excuse me..as it doesn’t seem to humble….IMO >IF the doctor is willing to come off his/her God Complex >long enough to listen.

Why bother talking to em..unless you have undiagnosed scurvy?Geez.. they ain’t god >Am I against doctors?  No, I am not

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. unless you figure it all out. let me know. >nd surprisingly, most of these types of unexplained illnesses are due to >nutrition deficiencies…an area that doctors are not as familiar with as a >layperson might think.

interresting, got anything that works? And do you eat it? or put it in the water? Randall- trying to make some sense of P chat-

Response:

Dear All, Can anyone help us? I need your help urgently. I’m very sorry for the cross-posting, but many attempts have been made but no treatment has been successful enough. My sister contracted a strange disease more than three yeares ago, which mainly representes on her skin distruction. At first, little red spots (covered by ringworm-like things) pop out on her face and body and spread quickly in the area of chest, armpit, wrist, fingers and then these spots becomes bigger and bigger and the contracted area becomes red and lumpy; in a few days, the skin splits and gives off some liquid, something like pus, and sometimes even sheds blood, accompanied by itches and pains. She often has cold sweat. Sometimes cough badly. For several times, hair keeps going and then grows again. Low blood pressure. Often feel cold in her hands and feet. She sometimes feels chest distress. Thank you very much for any help!!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->ear All, >Can anyone help us? I need your help urgently. I’m very sorry for the >cross-posting, but many attempts have been made but no treatment has been >successful enough. >My sister contracted a strange disease more than three yeares ago, which >mainly representes on her skin distruction. At first, little red spots >(covered by ringworm-like things) pop out on her face and body and spread >quickly in the area of chest, armpit, wrist, fingers and then these spots >becomes bigger and bigger and the contracted area becomes red and lumpy; in >a few days, the skin splits and gives off some liquid, something like pus, >and sometimes even sheds blood, accompanied by itches and pains. She often >has cold sweat. Sometimes cough badly. For several times, hair keeps going >and then grows again. Low blood pressure. Often feel cold in her hands and >feet. She sometimes feels chest distress. >Thank you very much for any help!!

I hear the urgency with which you write.  what you describe could be any number of dermatological or internal medical disorders from viruses, parasites, bacteria or reflect a deficit in some major organ function.  Rather than speculate on what MIGHT be the problem I recommend that you take her to an ER and get a workup where they will do tests for general chem (lytes and fluid balance), and probably check for things like ANA to make sure that it isn’t a reaction to a spider bite or something else as well as a complete metabolic panel and maybe a vdrl to make sure that it isn’t a blood transmitted problem. The pus is a definite sign that requires a CBC and WBC  with differentials to determine if it is viral or bacterial or autoimmune in origin.   The cough is a bad sign, and means this should be done NOW. Don’t wait , get her to an ER now and warn of possible infectious disease Future LPN Glenda, Witch of the North

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